Board Thread:Off-Topic Discussion/@comment-6433273-20151126190829/@comment-53539-20151230113159

Fima 007 wrote: Angel Emfrbl wrote: Can I just establish something here.

FIY; Until 2006, I used rom emulations such as the Megadrive/genesis and I read One Piece manga scans. I got into Pokemon because I admit I had the roms of the games up until Pearl/Diamond.

I'm 31, been to art university and have acquired a "credit where credit is due" policy years. I also understand you need to toss money at things or they don't happen in this world. Its not so much about the law as it is about the support. I understand the consequences of a fandoms collective actions.

I'm also on the fence about legal things and do believe software pirating is good for a product if it leads to actual purchases in the future. In other words, a sacrifice for the sake of a better future. I also know its rare anyone gets in trouble for it, but with a lot of young producers in this fandom any one of them could end up ruining any chance of a career if the wrong word gets out. I cansee all sides to the argument, but I won't be seen supporting it over the legal version 100% and believe everyone should buy it to support the software.

For some Vocaloids, the software is their only of turning profit.

So tell me on a black and white scale, where do I sit again? I think I'm more in the grey, slightly leaning on white" in my personnel opinion right then mostly white. You just born in the mostly clean enviroment,(in terms of "piracy") so you've not seen the more bad-looking situations the world has to offer ;)

Let me tell you what: Up to 6 generation(i mean sixth!) thre was simply No legal videogame industry. At all. It only started with the PS2, but barely, and too expensive back then. Before that, some "pirates" are managed to properly localaise the console games.(in terms of quality). Some of them later made a deal with the officials, and was their off. resellers/importers/distrib. Ive seen several console game clubs that was run on midified consoles and hacked sw... Even nowdays they still exist. There was stores back then that sell illegaly-pressed(often with bad quality) CDs and DVDs (and sold them >5$ each)... Of course nowdays its almost gone from our memories, but the grey area still exist...

Sorry, memories again :P. As what defines me, i was forced to use the "illegal" sw, but around the seven generation, made the switch to the official sw, at least where it posible.(if the prices are justifiable) Nowdays im collecting the old hw and sw (especially console-related) to build some sort of a c+vg museum, for the future generations did not forgot from what they are started for.

Its gonna get too long here,(even for a "flame" theard) so if anyone interested, i can write some lines about theese days of the past....

i was mentioned that you has more clean enviroment than me, but im still try to guess it: Its a light grey, slowly moving to the light side. As of me, im in a lot more dark area, but still in a grey zone(randomly roaming it, due to prices and politics)

Someone was mentioned, that the copy of a sw isnt transferable after putcahase, why they do that? they dont know that pepole would sold it on a sites like ebay and such? Weird and inflexible :/

As for the newcomers: we know that how they can easly follow the wrong road, and being banned by community forever... So why we force them use the different sw?(sure, it too based on a nearly-same method, but its a different sw) and why there are nearly no information on how to use them? I mean we need some sort of a english media(journal, or something web-based) like the one rana was distributed trough. And of couse1-2 small(like the kaai yuki package), but extremly cheap(around or under 50$) vocals suited fo learning.(again like the rana was itself) Yes, it would be a waste of recouces to some, but it brings more pepoole to the franchaise without ever needing them to even know what the term"pokaloid" stands for, and gives them some solid(and legal!) ground and information to start from.

Offtop: in the winter we so missing the sunlight, so im want to share some of mine sunlight with you:

here, and some other there. Sorry if it got some garbage in it, im just learning it :)

Again, happy holidays! :P If you steal something, you have no justification behind your actions. If you cannot afford something then its pretty much tough. I would like a holiday, cannot afford it therefore I don't holiday. I'd like a house of myown, cannot afford it so therefore rent. I'd like a new laptop, can't afford it so went with a second hand one. With Vocaloid, things are the same. if you can't afford it, then there is UTAU and you'll do the UTAU fandom a solid using it. And if UTAU isn't the cup of tea, then there are other syns around which are fairly cheap.

Vocaloids are a luxury item you can live without. :-/

I've heard a lot of excuses for pirating, but a lot of people in truth are the type who wouldn't buy something even if they had the money.

As I said, pirating is only justified when it leads to legit sales later on, but reality is this in terms of vocaloid; Hatsune Miku has tons of merch, and I mean tons. If her software is pirated, its not such a big deal because she likely by now earns much more via the merch then Vocaloid sales. However, another vocaloid, say Big Al, has jut his software.

I honestly don't believe the story about pirating costing millions. I do own a lot of DVDs, but honestly... I bought most of them second hand where I found a lot for £1-£3. So though I bought them, I didn't give money to the original production team. There, they didn't get my money anymore then if I had pirated it. The only difference is i didn't steal them, but the end result for the people who made them is the same.

To be frank, pirating was around even before the internet with VHS and cassette tapes, all that has happened is things got easier. UK law doesn't tend to get bothered with you either unless you sell the pirate versions, as far as it is concerned if you keep it personnel there is no harm. when it comes down to that... Zero-G never got a penny for me buying Lola... They did for Tonio, Sonika and Prima. I found Lola in a software box at a computer fair...

So it only really bothers me when people come up with excuses for pirating based on their condition. as I said, deep down I know a lot of the time it turns out to be that old "wouldn't buy it in the first place" routine. It bothers me because its better to be honest about being dishonest then being dishonest about being honest. I find people are more snappy once they find out about pirating when they've been told its not then if it was pirating.

That issue on second hand things i mentioned earlier, also the games companies a few years back tried to recover money they "lost" via secondhand games... I think the whole situation is crazier then going after pirates. Secondhand dealers aren't breaking the law... So a lot of this falls down to greed. Companies also at one stage used to earn more money from TV repeats then VHS movie repeats then sales in shops, so therefore I have that as an issue with companies too. :-/

I don't think this is flaming, I like debates and its been a while. Pirating is a debatable issue, therefore it perks my interest.

Sadly, either way the wikia itself can't really support illegal stuff. We had this same issue on the One Piece wikia, where we had to basically draw a line on things. Single frames are fine, but entire pages are questionable as such. If a line isn't draw by the editors, then the greater wikia staff can step in and draw it for the editors or worst shut down the wikia. So in terms of wiki itself, things here are cold because we're forced to it. Places like VO forums, however, are not forced to be so cold but aren't allow to open link. So the entire issue of pirating can also be driven by the community. Obviously within a pirating community itself, things are very open and accepted. But then they have issues with the law to deal with also.

Either way, the issue over pirating isn't so black and white for all of these reasons and I don't consider myself a "white" standing. I know some of the crap pirates say is BS, I know some of the stuff the companies say is BS. I just hate sitting there while BS is fired everywhere and people come up with stuff to defend their stance. I've never been dishonest myself about it, I don't ness support it... But Nintendo had my money for several pokemon games and my DSi because I pirated Pokemon once. If I had not, Nintendo would never had gotten a penny. So thats a couple of £££s there. Same goes for One Piece. I started buying the manga because I read scanalations. Without the scans, I would not buy the manga at all.

But people do get quite touchy on the subject and aggressive. I have more concern for people who buy a puppy or a kitten and can't afford it, because the animal often suffers. Pirating doesn't cause pain like that. :-/