Board Thread:News and Announcements/@comment-35301431-20140917173458/@comment-35301431-20140917173643

Bunai82

Updated all EOU templates to Derivatives(x4). 13 days ago by Bunai82

Angel Emfrbl

Notes section might need tweaking now. 7 days ago by Angel Emfrbl

Bunai82

I'll go through it and revamp the layout to match other Notes pages. 1 day ago by Bunai82

Adept-eX

Maybe 6 examples is too much. I think 4 examples per voicebank/release would be enough August 21, 2013 by Adept-eX

Bunai82

I'll try.

However, six was due to there not being enough to show case the Vocaloid. Given how small I got the template I may be able to due away with the collapsing part of the template.

I just go through and update everything. If six is too intimidating then I'll shrink it back to four or five. August 21, 2013 by Bunai82

Angel Emfrbl

Anyone care to make this more reader friendly? August 20, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Bunai82

On a different note, I'm trying to see if I can either make a template for EOU or just use the new Derivatives template. The only issue being the way the links are. June 29, 2013 by Bunai82

Bunai82

>_> soooo, anyone have anything to say while I experiment on LOLA's page? I would like to keep the thick headers, but I do need to change some stuff around with the Song Derivative template. Which leaves me to just making a new one as a temp so that it doesn't effect the song pages that still use it. July 25, 2013 by Bunai82

Avaflava1

Looked at LOLA's page, looks pretty good.

And on the song derivative template.....I don't know. Maybe a new one would be good so you can sort out things. July 25, 2013 by Avaflava1

Bunai82

Okay, made a new template for the EOU section.

It functions similar to the Derivatives template and the Song Derivatives template. The only thing I couldn't get to really work was putting the Description under the thumbnail and making the Title bar fatter... for some reason it is just stubborn.

A strange thing that happened with the ExampleEOU above, is that the Description parameter appears when not in use. I can only assume it is due to the continuous stacking of the template. August 19, 2013 by Bunai82

Adept-eX

A detail that needs to be corrected in the EOU and the derivative templates is the align. I think it would look more tidy with a vertical top align for the cell. You know, something like this Parameter1 	Data1 Parameter2 	Data1, Data2, Data3, Data4, Data5, Data6, Data7, Data8, Data9, Data10, Data11, Data12 Parameter3 	Data1 Data2 Data3 Data4

August 20, 2013 by Adept-eX

Bunai82

You'll have to do an example by using duplicating the template and page.

I had to move the Title and Featured singer to the right because the Description is below the other parameters instead of the thumbnail, if it wasn't like this there would be a big gap of space. August 20, 2013 by Bunai82

Bunai82

Alright, I'm ticked. NoNeed4Cosplay had some of the oldest Youtube uploads that featured English Vocaloids. The whole account has been terminated and the owner hasn't signed in due to going off to college. All Youtube had to do was remove the two videos featuring the mentioned people, not shut down the whole account.

"YouTube account NoNeed4Cosplay has been terminated because we received multiple third-party notifications of copyright infringement from claimants including:          chrolea           kotaro"

June 28, 2013 by Bunai82

Angel Emfrbl

Yeah I noticed the disappearance, if no one had said something by Monday I was going to shout it out at the forums since its gone nearly a week without changing them by then. June 29, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Angel Emfrbl

Late but coming up, list of vocaloids with their current 6 vids still not filled in; Kaito V3           Kagamine Rin/Len Ac1 Kagamine Act2 Prima Megpoid English (Though this one doesn't count since its only jut been released) Hiyama Kiyoteru Big Al           VY1 VY1v3 VY2 VY2v3 (also are there any songs using his falsetto voice around???) Cul Bruno Aoki Lapis Mayu

Also I purposely didn't update Galaco's EOU originally due to the news on her at the time. Now the dust has settled, should she have one or not??? February 28, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Angel Emfrbl

Still quite a few left to have their 6 song quota.

I'll list the remaining vocaloids tomorrow. February 16, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Angel Emfrbl

Its all done!

If I left anyone out let me know, I'm sorry for yet another day late. Long story short I helped someone out and ended up getting home tired and exhausted. ^_^'

But its DONE... The new system is in complete!!! February 5, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Angel Emfrbl

Tomorrow (sorry guys its ended up a date later then I said it would) I'll finish up the new EOU updates. As soon all all EOUs are filled, then yes, you can expand beyond 6.

If you want to see how things are gonna be set up after tomorrow, see the examples on this page.

And yeah, just a reminder, if this gets abused and we end up with too many examples, a cap will have to put on this again. THINK before you add what the songs purpose being up there is for before you add. We we have a good example already of a song of the same nature; there is no need to add another song like it. Also, don't forget to occasionally think of the lesser popular vocals, there are plenty of Miku song examples out there, to the point where readers will trip over them on youtube. Therefore we aren't really achieving much by trying to show readers what she can do because they likely know it already.

But yeah, I hope this has pleased everyone that they have a lot more freedom now. ^_^'

There is one things to decide, since the tabs were set up to show each readers whats in each box, does this mean Megpoid V3 should have a EOU for her "native" box???

Anyway, I'm off to do the last Vocaloid I'm doing to day, Hiyoteru (I should have done at least one Ah-software vocalod already but I forgot about them :-/). February 3, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Angel Emfrbl

I want to apologize to everyone for the lack of activity, Bunai was investigating for me any reports of an error with the wiki system. Turns out the <div stuff is causing one for the Firefox users who work with monobook. I've been forced to use wikilook until further notice.

Basically, tabs, collapsing templates and comment sections are not working for those who were working as I was. Alternative to get round you you can also switch browsers (which I did this morning as a anon user comment on something; I wonder if anyone realizes what is my comment...?).

I will continue from tomorrow (its like gone ten o'clock for me now) from where I left off and I'll crack at trying to finish as many vocaloids. February 2, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Angel Emfrbl

Right list of todays new EOU going up, limiting it still in case of changes; Prima Gachapoid Tone Rion SeeU Kagamine Rin/Len (Act2/Append included) VY2 (V3 included) Megurine Luka Mew (Just remembered she was on the list - edit)

There might be a break between updates, I'm due out somewhere around 1;00pm, its 10:00 roughly now. But those are the goals for today I'm attempting, as always EOU's must be filled out before editors will be allowed to expand beyond the 3 new additions after this week. Bruno and Clara are still missing songs, I filled in Tonio's myself yesterday since I knew of some examples but editors can change them. I have 0 familiarity with Clara and Bruno songs... :-/

Edit: Okay I'm getting quicker at setting these up apparently, their done, thats the new lot for the day. Prima wasn't on the list but she was done anyway.

Tomorrow I'll set up; Gumi, Gackpoid, Hatsune Miku, Big Al, Lily, Oliver, Sonika and VY1.

Unless someone does it first. January 30, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Avaflava1

I'm not really familiar with Bruno and Clara either, but here's a pretty good (spanish) cover of Cantarella with them

I can't add it at the moment (somehow I ended up with 96 messages in my inbox...fricking spam...) January 30, 2013 by Avaflava1

Angel Emfrbl

Right, giving Bunai's suggestion a go and if it works how I want it to be I'll that will be used instead of the code I put up.

Either way some more guys are getting the new EOU treatment.

Edit:

Tried out Bunais suggestion, I was able to get it to do what I wanted it to do so I'll go with that.

Edit: Also I'll be putting up a demo as a example on this page at the end of the day so you guys can "see" what I've been setting up and how it will help resolve your desires for more examples without hurting the page too much (thus helping future editors avoid issues on the wikia in the process). January 29, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Angel Emfrbl

Also while I'm on the subject, can someone please update Leon for the last two songs when I'm done???

Remember the condition for allowing more songs is to make sure at least every EOU updated is filled in.

Edit: The following pages have the new EOU set up; Tonio Bruno Clara

After every EOU is filled in, editors will be able to add more then 6 songs per EOU if they wish.

Edit: Right 3 more added, thats 8 done. I'm working slow at the moment and this will be all since I need time to see if bunai or anyone else can resolve the Navbar situation since I think its better at the bottom and not the top in this case... In other works, I'm limiting the amount of "fix me" editing I'll likely have to do tomorrow. January 29, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Angel Emfrbl

Ah, came across a problem with using the collapsing system, long story short the "Edit/discuss/etc" navbar template doesn't come up until you hit "More examples"...

There has to be a solution to that... :-/

Edit: Going to place it at the top until someone can fix the problem or at least point me in the direction to fix this. :-/

Least it doesn't fall victim to the collasping templates... On te one hand the hidden table didn't do that which is why I was pretty surprised it did that. I don't work twith " " style coding often so excuse my naivety on this one.:-/

Edit: As testament to my failure to work with wiki coding, there is also a problem of the one on this page doesn't go to the examples page since I didn't know how Navbar worked as well as I thought... O_O January 29, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Angel Emfrbl

I think I just about got round what I've been up to...

Edit: Okay guys, Leon was my lab rat (as usual).

basically, I added a "hidden" section. I'm going to add it to all EOU to allow more songs per EOU, it likely will need more decorating but it resolves at least one of the problems of how to fit more EOU songs on a page without them becoming a long list. You can add more songs per EOU template after this. :-)

Edit: Also, I will note the only other alternative I could come up with was a scrolling method, but I couldn't get it to work out in a way that would help this wikia out. :-/       January 28, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Angel Emfrbl

Oh and one more thing, yeah... I've not made it pretty or obvious but I just want to set it up.

I'll leave it to someone else to maker the "show more" sign prettier. ^_^'           January 28, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Angel Emfrbl

Today I'll set up the V1's with this, to give everyone a chance to catch up, tomorrow I'll put it on other pages. ^_^

I mostly need to give anyone else a chance to modify things before it gets too much for one editor to handle. :-3

edit: Oh and one more thing before I sign off wiki editing for the day; if you understand whats going on, feel free to add the new Additional songs to the EOUs on the wikia, you don't have to wait for me. :-)           January 28, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Bunai82

Would have probably been easier just to use a div collapse option 0_o;;

More examples CONTENT

January 28, 2013 by Bunai82

Angel Emfrbl

If I knew the code to change small size I'd be sheepishly saying "why didn't you tell me this sooner", knowing full well you didn't know what I was was up to hours ago or if you were even around at the time. ^_^'

I'll try it out tomorrow... One can only go by what one knows exists when it comes to wiki-coding, I knew this existed and scrolling so I tried both methods and stuck tot he one I got working.

For now I'm just giving the other editors a chance to give me feed back and respond. Also, will that allow additional sections? I planned to add more sections, as you unveil each hidden section there would be another "More examples" waiting for you at the bottom. Er... You understand what I'm trying to explain right? O_O January 28, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Bunai82

It is an interesting template though.

The div collapse will only stack one on top of the other. Or you just build a table with visible collapsing sections. I personally like the tab method. January 28, 2013 by Bunai82

Angel Emfrbl

There is a reason for avoiding tabs, tabs can slow down the page loading so I'm less anxious to over use them (or at least that's what I've noticed on my computer), On the front page of the wikia its somewhat a little unavoidable at times because theres no better way currently to set things up except the tabs, man can our main page be a little laggy at times...

Thats why I've avoided using them on the EOU unless there is no better way of dong it. :-/

Edit: Either way, it looks like I'm back tomorrow editing... January 28, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Angel Emfrbl

Oh yeah and with that respond to Bunai, since I'll admit this is open for discussion. January 27, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Angel Emfrbl

Oh and one more thing, what tied the no. of EOU songs was the fairness that needed to be held for unpopular vocaloids, 3 was considered a all round limit for finding a good number of original songs. Right now this is mixed. Someone once pointed out some of the vocaloids have some better cover songs then original songs, so this is becoming a grey area. :-/

A lot of us want to put more songs in the section, I will say even I'd like the amount increased since... THIS is my personal preference I will admit that. I'd like a rule that says we can make the EOUU amount of songs as large as the no. 6 vocals in the largest pack (this would be 6 as of the Appends). I don't know how everyone feels.

Also, btw, can anyone fix up the text I wrote today and make it clearer. Its going to change as we discuss this so its only been put up as a starting point. No one gets the current set up anyway, despite the fact its been running for a few months and its led to a few too many disagreements. But it needed to be written down first in order to be officially changed. :-/           January 27, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Angel Emfrbl

I'm testing something else out on Leon's page that might help the EOU sections and resolve a problem permanently, however, it could also not work at all. January 28, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Bunai82

Your personal preferences for how this section should be done is confusing. January 27, 2013 by Bunai82

Angel Emfrbl

I'll explain whats going on (I stopped halfway through this to go out for a while, sorry I never finished).

Anyway, I'm going to bring up a problem we've discussed several times in the last few months (not the bilinguals), but cramming 6 appends for Vocaloids like Miku into the EOU. I think we'll have to consider buffing up the no. of songs for the sake of a few vocaloids. This should also resolve the issues of the bilinguals. The stuff I wrote up today is basically a "starting" point how I set up the EOU until now so we know how things were set up. From here we'll move on and adapt it.

The problem is how to avoid this becoming too much for the pages, so we'll have to have a number to cap at regardless for each release, I suggest we never go beyond 6 (the largest packages right now are 6, being the Appends for Miku and the Kagamine). January 27, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Avaflava1

I think for certain vocaloids there should be more than three for each, like Miku with each of her Appends, it's a good idea.

And six sounds good. January 27, 2013 by Avaflava1

Angel Emfrbl

The number would be the same for all vocaloids, when the EOU were first added, 3 was a nice round number... But now even I'm at least admitting its a redundant number. January 27, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Kimi2.0

I just don't understand, why does the number have to be even for all vocaloids? Is the issue that the page may get overloaded, or is it simply just because? Because it won't be fair? Well, some vocaloids have more voicebanks than the others, so if anything is not fair for them. Six is still not enough. Miku already has six appends, plus her basic voicebank, plus her upcoming V3 and English voicebank. Why should we show examples of some of them while leaving other out? It doesn't feel right.

Also, from Luka thread:

>Luka and the Kagamine still have two vocal banks in their box

That doesn't change the fact that it's not the same situation. Rin and Len are two entirely seperate Vocaloids. One is male the other is female. Len isn't just Rin's additional voicebank or vice versa. They get different appends, different songs, when they sing together it's a duet between two different Vocaloids. And Luka English is not entirely seperate Vocaloid...it's just an extension for Luka.

>ditto for SeeU, it makes no difference

Erm. No. Your point was that when there is two voicebanks in one package, whether it's two different vocaloids or just a different language set, the section should present an example for each voicebank seperately and one for the two combined.

It may work for Rin and Len because people actually make duets with them all the time, but you will hardly find a song that combines Luka default and Luka's English Voicebank and you will definitely not find a song that combines both SeeU Korean and SeeU Japanese. And you still didn't explain how can this system apply in a case of trilingual Vocaloid. January 27, 2013 by Kimi2.0

Angel Emfrbl

Okay as I said Kim, capping is a matter of lack of choice in the matter, when I first came here we had a list of notable songs on here page... Long story short it got a mess, Vocaloids like Miku had almost run away notable sections and it became a problem to track them all. There was a small issue brought up that newbies couldn't find "decent" songs, so the EOU was a step in the right direction to help this and introduce people to the vocaloids by reusing the same ideas the notable songs had by being on the page for a VERY different reason (and not ness. notable songs could also end up in the EOU, not all the ntoable songs are actually that good... ).

Also, consider as well, keeping it the same helps maintain a sort of standardization on the wikia, as the editors can easily work with a standard but cannot work so well if there are too many variables per page. If someone does a edit that looks good with 6 EOU examples, but then scrolls to a page with 8 and finds they are not working, they will be left with either adjusting their plans to compensate or snipping the EOU section anyway.

Also we say one vocaloid has to have X amount we have to do the same for all vocaloids to make it fair, for some of the unpopular vocaloids, so there can be no exceptions to this. This is to prevent the wikia being dominated by any single one vocaloid, one of the goals of the wikia is to promote all vocaloids. Some vocaloids can easily fill out hundred EOU sections, others struggle to fill out the 3 fairly now. ^_-

Either way, no matter what, there will always have to be a cap on the limit of some sort.

Kagamines =/= Megurine Luka? Kim its the SAME situation, just because the vocaloids in the Kagamines both are Japanese doesn't mean the situation isn't the same. Just imagine if Len's vocal was the English version of Rin's vocal, would this makes things different? No, there is still two vocals in the package, nothing changes just because one is a different language. And yes, there maybe less of them with the two vocals used at once, but its not impossible to find and the reason why I propose the section be increased to 6 is to give a fairer 3/3 ratio for both in the package. Half for Japanese and half for the other language is pretty fair if you ask me. Regardless, no really, there IS no difference on the situation here. :-/           January 27, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Kimi2.0

>Kagamines =/= Megurine Luka? Kim its the SAME situation, just because the vocaloids in the Kagamines both are Japanese doesn't mean the situation isn't the same.

No, it's really not the same.

>Just imagine if Len's vocal was the English version of Rin's vocal, would this makes things different?

But, exactly it's what I said I don't need to imagine that because taht's not the case LEN. IS.NOT Rin's other voicebank. He is a different Vocaloid altogether. He has different voice, different gender, different everything. He is treated as a seperate being by the company, by the producers, by the fans and everyone.

Luka English is NOT a different Vocaloid. Gumi Power is not a different Vocaloid. Miku Sweet is not a different Vocaloid.

Len and Rin ARE different Vocaloids. It doesn't matter that they are sold in the same package.

>Also we say one vocaloid has to have X amount we have to do the same for all vocaloids to make it fair, for some of the unpopular vocaloids, so there can be no exceptions to this.

And how is that fair for the Vocaloids with more Voicebanks? I really don't see a problem here. Vocaloids with only one voicebank get 3 examples because they don't need more, Vocaloids like Gumi or Miku get however many examples they need, to showcase each of their voicebanks, so people who come to wikia to seek information about voicebanks can get a general idea about how each of them sounds. THAT would be fair.

Keeping the number down just because of less popular Vocaloids is not fair. January 27, 2013 by Kimi2.0

Avaflava1

@Kimi I think Angel means that by the same situation, it's more than one voicebank, not in terms of however many Vocaloids there are in the package. Because that's really what a Vocaloid is. Software in a package.

And I kind of agree with Kimi about the number of voicebanks per Vocaloid, the more voicebanks, the more EoU January 27, 2013 by Avaflava1

Kimi2.0

Sure, but that still doesn't justify treating Rin/Len like an extension for the other one because that's not what he/she is.

If, for example, Crypton had a good day and decided they will bundle Meiko and Kaito does that suddenly make Kaito Meiko's append just because you install them at once and have both of them on the boxart? No, they are still both seperate characters with seperate voices that both get appends/extensions of their own. January 27, 2013 by Kimi2.0

Avaflava1

I don't think she means it like an extension, for both ways, Luka and Rin / Len... January 27, 2013 by Avaflava1

Kimi2.0

Sigh..In any case, Luka/Luka English, SeeU KR/SeeU JP and so on are not used the same way as Rin is with Len. Plus soon, both of them will get their own English Voicebanks, so it won't make sense to use that formula even more. January 27, 2013 by Kimi2.0

Angel Emfrbl

Why is Ava the only one understanding me here on the Luka situation?

@Kim; do note when the English version comes out it will be yet another pack... Therefore that will get a tab of its own. :-/

Lets make it clear guys, regardless of the pack, a EOU section is going to have to be capped and the same cap for one is going to happen for all.

Also Kim, keeping it down for less popular vocaloid is fair on the less popular vocaloids. If I look at Miku's songs, as a newbie fan, I can find no end to examples that are good enough to get a idea what she is. If I look say...Tonio... I'm struggling off the spot. Point is, if the EOU is just meant to display what producers have done, its going to be easier for some vocaloids and not for others. To stop the wikia getting too fixed on the most popular vocaloids, we've also got to take the least popular into account here. The most famous are going to getting more releases and additional vocals anyway, so they'll have tabs for every update. Essentially, overall Miku herself will get more EOU songs overall then other vocaloids like Mew if you take all EOU sections (which by V4 looks like; H. Miku, Miku Append, V3 Miku, V3 Append, possibly english too, thats what... 12 songs at least Vs Mew's 3). :-/           January 28, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Angel Emfrbl

Okay long story short, I "saw" what I could to meet demands here...

You CAN now adds more then the amount and there is a little less demand for a cap. But essentially... See Leons page "EOU". I'll show everyone how this is going to work once the current hidden EOU sections are filled up at the end of this week, but essentially, there is potential to be no limit this way on how many songs per EOU can have. Be aware that a cap of some sort will go in place if the EOU sections run away.. Because we have other pages for a reason. But for now.... This is pretty much the only solution I can up with that makes everyone happy. ^_^           January 28, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Aoikis

"5. There are some general preferences the wikia prefers to use, but will not always stick 100% by them if the situation arises.

*It is also preferred that original songs are used for these sections."

"12. The examples of usage are meant to cover songs only as this is the design purpose of Vocaloid itself."

...So I... January 3, 2013 by Aoikis

Angel Emfrbl

Truthfully you don't have to follow any of this if you wanted, but he have a basic guideline so we know what we're after... ^_^'

But people keep asking so we had to have this.

Especially on subject no.1.... January 4, 2013 by Angel Emfrbl

Bunai82

It seems it would be easier to add six songs and place them between the "option" code and have them rotate on their own. December 26, 2012 by Bunai82

Adept-eX

That's a possibility. However, how are we going to do it with the less popular Vocaloids? We already have some issues for find 3 good examples =/ December 26, 2012 by Adept-eX

Bunai82

lol then it would just be a standard three. Though even with the least popular, you can still find covers or collabs. December 26, 2012 by Bunai82

Bunai82

Well, the rotating works, but the coding disables the song's title.

If I can't find a mediawiki code to 'fix' it, I'll just leave it as three song standard. December 26, 2012 by Bunai82

Angel Emfrbl

Might be better if example sections were external templates then, that way you coudl stuff as many songs on the templates page as you want and it won't overload the vocaloids page itself. December 26, 2012 by Angel Emfrbl

Bunai82

Ah, still waiting on an answer from Central. Maybe the coding disables intentionally.

A template within a template again? It may work. December 26, 2012 by Bunai82

Bunai82

I'll test this with Avanna's page since she is new and is getting a lot of covers and some originals.

Also, Examples of Usage makes me think that "talkloid" sessions are allowed. December 28, 2012 by Bunai82

Angel Emfrbl

That would be fine, depending, however, the intention is for the musical aspects.

Should we note that on this page? December 28, 2012 by Angel Emfrbl

Bunai82

Would be nice to make it more obvious. December 28, 2012 by Bunai82

Angel Emfrbl

I'll add a note then.

Edit: Hows that? December 28, 2012 by Angel Emfrbl

Angel Emfrbl

Hows this page so far? December 18, 2012 by Angel Emfrbl

Dizzyzebra

Just did a proof read. Looks helpful. December 18, 2012 by Dizzyzebra

Angel Emfrbl

These notes pages I've written so far will need ironing out over time to make them more user friendly, btu they seem to be a better idea then one massive page to cover everything, even stuff we didn't need to have it cover really. December 18, 2012 by Angel Emfrbl