Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-25563055-20141024231726/@comment-53539-20160525050548

NeevaDash wrote: Yeah, I do want more Korean vocals, anyway....

More reasons people hate Engloids.

1. Not a plain English vocal has been voiced by a celebrity (Looking at you Yohio, but you speak Japanese too, so you get extra fame) While Gakupo is Gackt. Who is a big shot it Japan (I only heard of him through Gakupo)

2. They don't seem to get updated

3. They sometimes have a hard time finding vocal providers (That don't sound the same)

I'm done here. Thanks for having me
 * 1) Famous singers are expensive! To hire Ozzy Obourne for 1 session is $10,000+.  A lot of English singers are a lot more super famous then most Japanese ones, across the world. Gackt may be famous, but Sachiko's singer is a lot higher caliber then he is; plus famous singers are not a certain to sell.  if this was true, then Gackt would out sell Miku, a Vocaloid whose provider was at best and still is an amateur singer.  Miriam Stockleigh prob. has sold more songs then Gackt as she was a singer for the Lord of the Rings tracks, as well as other classic movies and shows like Peter Rabbit. She may not be well known but you even stated; you only know of Gackt because of Gackpo.
 * 2) Export rates (overseas developer pay more then in-Japan studios) and low profit due to the larger samples. Note that a single English vocal is the same as having 5 Japanese vocaloids of the same tone due to content size.  Also note that there are Vocaloids from Japan who are not being updated... In fact... Piko and half the V3 vocals hve et to be updated.  Ah software updated their V2 because they became unsupported, it is unknown if they'd have been updated if not for that.  Ryuto only got updated because of Gachapin's anniversary. GWL and triphones were really the only thing added to Gackpo's V4 update... Ditto Galaco and Rana's update were just "official" commercial releases.  VY1 and VY2 are re-released to show off the engine and head a lot of Yamaha products.  Updating is not ness. a good thing, V4 has a serious lack of original and fresh new Vocaloids from Japan and the large re-releases have been noted.  Some updates barely change much at all.  Others like Gumi or Luka V4x sound like  good deal... Until you re-examine and see a number of issues with their updates...  The nature of update are not always good when there is too many or what you get leave you with questions.  Also you pay extra because your re-newing a license to produce a update of that vocal... So unless your confident its not worth it.  New vocals offer new potentials, since the vocals can be very different to updated vocals as you can only get X amount of variations from a vocalist before you get much the same results.
 * 3) Nope! Not anymore!  Anders noted he is constantly being approached by young and amateur singers for it.  And don't get me wrong, there are still plenty of singers in Japan who don't want to voice, or be known to voice, Vocaloids. Its like this; they are scared it will make the redundant by creating vocal clones. As for "sounding the same", did you not read what I said on this in my previous post!  Also, what separate vocaloids is pitching layers.  Ausgris, the current prototype vocal from VocaTone they've shown was noted to share many traits with current vocals.  However, VocaTone noted that would would seperate him and make him sound unique is the layers of pitch.  There hasn't been 1 English vocal that has sounded the same, whereas both China and Japan have very much produced similar sounding vocals, though sample difference always prevent vocals sounding identical to a tee.  Even VY1 was noted to be able to pass as a Miku Append clone beck in V2.  Its not the tones, its the sound pronunciations, in English because of stress accents they can be very different.  Its why you can tell a British speaker from American, or an Aussy or even which European country someone trying to say it comes from.  Heck you can tell when comedians get the Chinese accent and Japanese accent wrong when they take the mick by which sounds they mix up. A lot of the reasons why, though, Japan and China have produced vocals which sound alike, is on top of my previous mentions, the market favors certain singing styles, therefore you end up with a lot of the same thing.  Plus when you do go professional, you risk more of the same vocalist types because they are taught to sing in a certain way.  So a typical opera singer will sound like Prima or her vocalist no matter what.  Its also why Meiko ends up mimicking a common vocal type in the music industry, or why so many vocalists end up overlapping her range and tones.  Its why since V3 I've been saying how vocaloids CAN imitate or sound alike; because vocal impersonations exist in the real world, therefore it can also exist in Vocaloid as its based on reality.  I'm not sying every Vocaloid can imitate another or every Vocaloid sounds alike, I'm just noting its possible.

Good grief!

Now for the next post, phew;

''Gumi English is choppy, but realistic if you use it right (Took me years to figure that out....). I'm going to exclude Gumi now, since she's a Japanese vocal.''

Prima is a more realistic and smoother vocal then Gumi; she is V2. Also when it boils down to it, Gumi's not been the most realistic vocal since miki V2 was released. Not a miki fans even realized it, but miki was actually considered the more realistic then Gumi. What let miki down though... Was she was a pain to use and came out against 2 other vocaloids, plus competing with Internet co and CFM vocals. So she was unappreciated at the time. I mean she was able to fill all 16 tacks easily, a feat even Gumi struggled to do. Point is, Gumi English will also have a lot of problems too, and that choppiness breaks the illusion of realism. And if your comparing her to Prima in terms of realism, Prima at her best, Tonio's a lot harder to do, she will out-knock most Vocaloids - its just good luck finding a good producer. Trust me, I own her, her realism is real, but her difficult also. Big Al is much easier to use. But... Sachiko is not suppose to be easy to use either, because she is Japans Prima right now. ¬_¬

People will hate for any little reason they can find..

We heard you the first two times.

Avanna sounds fairly realistic, but her bassy voice limits her

She is meant for higher registers or mid, her bass sucks for this reason. Miku's is the same... Piko's is the same... In contrast, Luka's treble was horrible in V2. Its rare you find a vocaloid with its main vocal, treble and bass all equally good and then the voice can have other troubles. for example, it can be too solid.

Oliver is cute, but vocal can sound choppy

Gumi is worst. Also he is a V2 in the V3 engine. Avanna and Yohioloid were better. Arsloid Bright and Soft, have you met them? Og and the Kagamines Act2!

Cyber sounds a bit robotic, but can be edited to sound natural

They went for precision of sounds versus expression, so she lost the softer tones that give a vocaloid expression. This is why she sounds less natural, Oliver in contrast or Prima sound more natural.But again... In Japan, Yukri sounds more natural then Cul. Since Cul's vocal is heavy I often sounds more natural then IA Rocks, but Rocks was built to address issues present in the main vocal. Do you ee where I'm going here? This is dependent on the voicebank. Why bring it up, its not bloody unique to Diva!

Gumi Native

Very realistic, and I've had people say she's a real person

Prim and Tonio can fool opera lovers into thinking their real singers, Oliver too can trick people. This is NOT uniue to the Japanese side! If your going to doubt English vocaloids, then your actually not doubting them all, but rather the engine itself. As its the ENGINE that makes the vocal relistic, not the build. If the engine can't handle the build of the voicebank, or its not compatible with the engine, then the illusion is lost. Plus we're in the age of autotune; does anyone know what a real vocalist sounds like anymore?

IA

Quite realistic, but still need work to be human like

Erm... Ia's one of the realistic vocals... I think unless someone tells you, you actually don't know the difference here. ¬_¬'

Fukase

''A ball of cute!!!!!! His voice is nice, but not very loud''

He has Oliver-level softness! Whats the friggin' difference between Oliver and Fukase? Plus, Fukase's provider is a power vocalist, he is a soft type.

Comparing those, Japanese wins

There has been more variation in the English vocals, then the Japanese ones even though there is fewer of them. And how does naming a few vocals make Japan win exactly?

Again, for once Scint is on the same page as me in your thoughts... You really don't know much on this subject.

Also I think bass-vocals are sexy (growl!!!)! Ditto baritones (btw, did you know Elvis was a Baritone/tenor)... Oh and mature tenors...  And say what you want, Big Al is fun to play with as a vocal. Pardon me for saying since, if you think Big Al and deeper vocals are "ugly"; you don't know your missing!

And this sums up all the bias that the anti-English fans end up displaying, they cut themselves off from the second largest vocal established market and there is more of them then Chinese, Korean nd Spanish vocals combined. That means they miss out on a LOT of vocals! Thats... Really sad... How can a Vocaloid fan call themselves "a fan" when their not really one. They don't love all the engine, just one part. What they mean is "Japanese Vocaloid fan", not "Vocaloid fan".