Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-25563055-20141024231726/@comment-53539-20141025203149

Strictly speaking, from experience anything that appears to be a Japanese thing being transferred to an american thing tends to be hated. Typical its because a lot of anime, Japanese games or manga got a reputation for being poorly translated. See 4Kids and One Piece, amongst the many other horrors.

Often people get into the Japanese members of the Big 8. After the Big 8, many fans are divided on all of the other Japanese Vocalodis, many seen as "copy-cats" of the Big 8. So, next in line for the ranking of hate would be the Engloids. Most of it lines back to this old dislike for anything being Americanized, under the belief it will loose something from the original in the process. Naturally, as the first 3 Vocaloids were English its utter BS and both versions were worked on at the same time. So there is no "Japanese -> English" its "English + Japanese".

As for the hate itself... I've heard it all, from being accused of lacking realism to being barely understandable. Some of it baffles me. On the one hand, realism and clarity are given as primary reasons for disliking English Vocaloids were countered by Japanese Vocaloid fans who were into Engloid (there is SUCH a thing), who felt English Vocaloids were more realistic and had more clarity then what typically overseas fans made out to believe they had. They were able to acknowledge Prima's lack of clarity, but praised Sweet Ann's clarity - not bad considering English is not Japanese first language. Also, when Big Al was released, one of the most notable reactions with 24 hours of his release from Japan translated to "its as if he came out of the same factory as Miku", which is another remarkable from Japan compared to the overseas fandom.

Next came to the boxart, which was originally mocked only because the Japanese fandom mocked first as a reaction. There is nothing held against the boxarts of Egnlish Vocaloids prior to the raise of Miku's fame. It wasn't an issue nor important enough to be a selling point. Sweet Ann's boxart is just a white version of a famous singer, the original art is more then accepted as a icon poster art and nobody said anything about Zero-G's stock images because this was normal. See Cantor.

Basically, Japan doesn't see Vocaloid in the same light as we do.... Least it seems. :-/

Basically, a LOT of the issues were caused by weboos and continue to be caused by them. I stand by my belief that if a perfect English Vocaloid is made, people will still see as inferior because they've made up their mind.

Worst is, there is *some* who do not feel the English Vocaloids are anything LQ, even when their not. A couple of years ago, someone ranked Avanna as LQ on VO, and to my alarm it was the first time VO'ers defended a English Vocaloid vocal as more then a LQ vocal. They would not defend Sonika, even though Sound on Sound ranked her as better then Tonio, because they have so many cribs with her vocals they see her as a LQ (I agree on some things, but Vocaloid is a HQ product so "LQ" of a HQ product is still notable). Yet... Nobody held the Kagamines for their poor Act1.

Likewise, Miku English has many faults, but the vocal is made out to be far worst then it actually is. I recently wrote a blog defending it for better reasons and explained a lot of its issues are not as bad as people make them out to be. Yet there was BS not so long ago about Maika's capabilities being "better then Engloids" when without editing, Maika is as lousey as any other non-English built vocal... Well almost since Spanish is a European language too.

Basically, out of all the myths, bias and beliefs held by this fandom, the level against English Vocaloid is far succeeding anything against any other Vocaloid set, all par the most controversial vocaloid SeeU, being taken into mind. Most of it is unjustified and crazy. Those which are true aren't always put in the right light. When Xey or Freckle face (can't remember which) claimed there has been no change for V3 English at all, I noted this is BS as the V3 engine itself has improved its quality. To say no change for English Vocaloid has happened is basically to deny there was NO IMPROVEMENT between V2 and V3 at all. If this was the case, then one would have to ask how comes when a V2 English vocal is important into V3, it sounds overall better most of the time and there is a leap in quality.

As for the "lack of the vocals they desire" situation, well... I remember this is not the only case for us. Big Al saw a lot of usage in V2 by Japanese fans, because he was a vocal the Japanese lacked. :-/

I would say things have improved mostly down to Oliver and Avanna. Oliver wont he fandoms love and Avanna has the rep. As the Japanese Vocaloids get English, this peeks the interests of weaboos. This leads to them actually considering English vocals beyond Miku and co.

As I've said it before the blight of the Engloids is why I started wiki-editing here and on wikipedia most of all. I always mention it, but one of the first repies when I scolded the way Vocaloid was "but there is more info on the Japanese vocaloids!" (or something like that). I basically told them off since that is no excuse for not mentioned them at all on a wikipedia page! Really, the only thing on there about them was their name in list form. The stuff on the other Japanese Vocaloids was slapped together and most of the focus was on CFM Vocaloids... I expect 2/3 to be mentioning them, but not 80-90% of the bloody page! ¬_¬

I think the worst thing about the English Vocaloid situation was, due to the lack of info and coverage prior to us all pulling together as editors to bringing up the wikia and wikipedia page, so many misconceptions existed. I won't say things are perfect now because of us, but we've certainly made sure every Vocaloid has *some* chance between our edits and this had done every vocaloid a favor. As I pointed out at VO back in mid-2010, unless you keep the wikipedia and major wikia up to snuff, you can't improve the overall knowledge of a fandom...

...Because people rarely read past the first 6 hits on google, you need to bare this in mind that wikipedia will be usually within the top 3 hits and will therefore be every fans introduction to their knowledge pool. I... shouldn't have had to beg and explain this to anyone... As it basically goes without saying that people tend to rely on wikias and wikipedia for their sources of information, they shouldn't, but they do.

I'm done.

If I don't finish somewhere, I'll have no fingers left on my hands.