User blog comment:Angel Emfrbl/Extra vocals XSY and all that.../@comment-67.8.143.20-20151203200635/@comment-53539-20151204170721

I'm not saing that XSY isn't a bad thing, I'm saying that its a concept that works in theory but in practice may not be as good as one thinks. You can mix voicebank X with W and get a result different from the two... But the result is not going to ness. be as good as the original vocals mixed, V3 or V4 the same over.

'' I personally think XSY banks and appends are better than voice banks in another language, because no bilingual vocaloid yet have masters both of their language. All of the vocaloids that are in a language non- native to the voice provider all have accents and pronunciation errors. Using your logic "right tool for the right job" they have no reason to be used because there are native vocaloid in that language''

On the contray, since Miku English does better English then Miku's Japanese vocals, then if you want Miku in English, and she is covering the genres you need her to cover, then she would be the right tool for the right job. The wrong tool for the job would be using any of her Japanese vocals.

In the case of native vocals... If we go back to V2 days, both Prima and Miku covered the same vocal range. However, Prima was bound for opera style. If there had been a Miku English then with that range, it might as well have been a better choice then Prima. But either way, if yo want opera-esque results you'd be going for Prima.

You take my words the wrong way. Note that you're not going to get far on the multiple language thing with me... I support bilingual Vocals as much as I support a person learning a second language, both are wonderful things. If a person buys a vocaloid to do a job it wasn't built for, it takes a lot more effort to make that Vocaloid work. Some like this challenge as it tests the as a producer, but the majority of the time it fails. Going back to the V2 situation, many western producers buying Japanese vocaloids had little info on them, so it was a shot in the dark. They bought a tool, that outside of covers using someone else's VSQ (mostly) they couldn't use.

''Xsy is a usefull tool because you can get realistic and natural variation which couldn't be done before. Now you can have subtle phonetic variation so it's [a] phoneme isn't the same all the time. You can also use XSY to make realistic doubled vocals.''

Objection!

XSY works fine as a concept, but as I said it doesn't always work in practice. The most different two voicebanks are, the less natural and more robotic the results are. They are calculated by a formula, which isn't ness. true to how the vocal would be in real life. Ironically, Megpoid V4 is such a example, as you mix vocals from any of the 5 packs and you get LQ results then the ones from the same pack. The more different they are, the harsher and rougher the result, V3's being the result for reasons we both know.

Also as someone said on VO forums one of the latest Kagamine demos, a song originally done in V2 with Rin Warm Append was redone with XSY. The original Warm vocal, however, despite its flaws as a V2 vocal was a much better result. This I agreed with them. So using XSY is not ness. better either way, it just gives you more options. Its all part of the experimentation part of Vocaloid using trial and error.

''.I have used gumi v4 demo and have to say she XSY perfectly. Gumi v4 is the best v4 update yet. It has the original 5 Gumi voice banks for the people who want gumi to sound like how she was in her previous releases and then 5 new voice banks using new recordings to blend with original gumi but can also stand on it's own. When you compare it to other v4 releases this has both of best worlds.''

I still disagree. As I said, you don't gaain any advantage having 10 vocals for the same vocaloid in this case. All 10 vocals cover the same vocal range and tempo, there is no advantage except one vocal type might be slightly better at something then another. This is different to vocals like Yukari, whose fewer vocals give them more genre advantages. Even if you just focus on XSY, Yukari will still have greater differences between her vocals, if done with the power one. You just might get a lower result.

--- ''Gumi v4 is also not that expensive she is 28,000 yen for her Complete 10 voice banks which is the price of 2-3 single voicebank vocaloids. Also why suggest kagamines to a person who wants luka power. There are closer power voice banks that are closer in tone like iroha nekomura, mew, ia, meiko power. ''

Okay;
 * 1) I established Gumi V4 is cheaper, but as I've said... There isn't a big advantage here for owning all 10 vocals. From experience of witnessing the habbits of many producers, the more vocals they have access to, the less they take advantage of them.  Habit forms that a produce will develop a favourite vocal and stick with it.  An example was out of the Miku Append, Dark saw an awful lot of use at one point for that reason.  In fact, Miku herself is a example of producers sticking with just 1 vocal.  So those 10 vocals for Gumi are not all ness. going to be used.  The producer will likely use one or two, but not ness. all of them.  Over time there will always be a vocal in the pack that they will ignore.  <br/ And some producers aren't ness. bothering with XSY since the result is too complicated and too unpredictable, least in the Japanese fandom.
 * 2) I wasn just sticking with the CFM lot when I replied that time. Mew and Meiko power, also were not around.