Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-98.164.29.187-20170624115223

Pfft, this may not get attention but oh well. Also, before we start, I'd just like to say that my comments/arguments/whatever may not be solid or something like that, they might be flawed, I'll admit that. Just a heads up, k? (And yes, I know they're just programs but the majority of people--including myself--portray them as actual characters with personalities so I'm using that point of view as well)

Also this is probably long oops.

Before we begin, I'd like to point out I do know not all fans are like this but in my experience, a staggering majority are and I absolutely hate it.

So, yaoi. I don't like it. It's just--I can't stand it. I'd make a discussion about the yaoi fandom but I'm not sure if that belongs here. Just know that it's one of the things that pains me to no end, I find yuri much more enjoyable (no, not really sexually, but romance-wise), but that's another topic.

Back to the conversation, this fandom has so much yaoi and I honestly wonder why

So, this is probably more of a rant than a question but why is there so much fckin yaoi? I used to ship Gakupo(Gackpo? Which do you guys prefer..?) x Kaito until I realized how shit the community could be, sorry for being so blunt but I'm just being honest.

Shall I go ahead and tell you why I hate yaoi in particular? In this fandom, anyway.

1. Shotacon

I'll admit, the "shotas" in the Vocaloid series are cute, yes. But they're also called shotas for a reason, you know.

It's not just yaoi too, there's so many fangirls I've seen, saying Len or Oliver are "sexy" (more Len than Oliver but still). Like what. Len is fourteen, too. I get it, age of consent in Japan is different but I'm pretty sure I've heard that recently it's been moved up to sixteen? Correct me if I'm wrong. And yes, the fangirls may be teenage or preteen fans but I think that makes it a little worse if there's a 10 year old or a 19 year old saying a preteen is sexy. Or maybe there's nothing wrong with it and I'm just weird.

But in the shipping fandom, there's so much Len yaoi, like whyy? I don't think it's sexy at all to see seemingly grown men have sex with a little boy or just see two young boys doing fanservicey things like in Shota Shota Island. Lolis have this same problem but I have a harder time seeing them in a sexual light, and for me, shotas are much easier to see in a sexual manner because of how much pervertedness gets to them. I just see lolis as moe because I consider most hentai I stumble upon with "lolis" just to be flat-chested girls. (I do see some I can't deny aren't lolis but I don't see it as much as I see shotas)

Bringing me back to my point, how is shotacon sexy? Because they can be submissive? Because they're adorable? Because they can be easily manipulated? Like, what?? All I ever really see is people making Kaito fuck Len until he's sobbing and calling it sexy.

For someone who sees Kaito as someone at least in his mid-twenties, that's not sexy. It's disgusting to me, personally. Bringing me to my next point:

2. Sexualization

Ah, ah, I know, I know, sexualization with Vocaloid is inevitable but it's relevant to why I hate yaoi, which is kinda the topic of this conversation.

So, sexualizing! What turned Meiko and possibly more into supposed whores (or at least, one factor), Miku and Rin into an imouto and loli fetish respectfully, and then yaoi.

I dislike it. I'm not against sexual things, mind you. My favorite anime is Monster Musume, that's saying a lot about me as a person HAHAHA *knee slap*

But the extent yaoi takes it to is just.. Uh. Yeah.

Like, can't we see something relatively adorable without it getting drowned in sex? I even saw a cute little boy's love comic and it was so fluffy until someone mentioned adding smut in. Like, dude. My whole experience was just nullified because of that, smh.

But anyway, the reason I dislike yaoi in the fandom (and in particular), is how much sexual content there is. Like, I know there can be normal art of a couple but most of it is smutty, well drawn or not. It drove me away from the yaoi fandom because it's just so sexual, like, where's the love, bro?

Might as well call them friends with benefits, not lovers. I don't see love, just lust. I'm sure yuri couples suffer the same and I know it's in hetero pairings but c'mon, dude. It's oversaturated.

"Well, psh, anon. Why don't you just avoid it?"

Well, I do, but if I see a blog I'm interested in and it has good stuff, I like to traverse it. Unfortunately, that ends badly and I end up having to block it out until I see something I like again. It's not that difficult to go away but I get interested in what it has to offer and I end up seeing what I don't like. That's my own fault though (told you my arguments would probably be flawed)

ANYWAY, yeah. The amount of sexual content involved in yaoi drove me away from potentially good pairings. Try thinking of a yaoi that wasn't contaminated by sexual content. Pretty sure it's impossible. Just like it's impossible to find that HASN'T been turned sexual.

3. The ships themselves.

They just--agh

Kaito x Kaito? But isn't that selfcest? I think it was driven off of some joke that Kaito loves himself but..

Huh?? Why? I-It's basically just him kissing a mirror, who'd ship this seriously..?

Len x Kaito Do I need to explain? It's the classic "onii-chan" shotacon thingy.

Kaito x Len x Gakupo
 * HURL--* (I guess this pairing has good songs but that's about it. I hate the actual ship with a passion.)

That's really all I have to say about the ships. They--They just aren't good, in my opinion. I know it's kind of subjective but I honestly don't see much appeal, if any.

4. The behavior: the characters. (Skip this if you're not into making headcanoned personalities for them)

One of the things that bothers me most about the fandom in general (besides sane or knowledgeable fans) is the portrayal of some characters. Maybe mine aren't that good or special (Gakupo is a calm, slightly protective but nice samurai that gets shy sometimes, mostly around his Master, whom he has a slight crush on and admiration of. Or that Rin is a prankster that dislikes the songs she sings sometimes, mostly how people always make her sing songs that are too dark or cute, for example) but in shipping, their behaviors..*sigh*

For example, in yaoi, Kaito is usually seen as a very shy and submissive uke, or a tsundere uke. Or he's the big brother who "knows it's wrong to want his little bro but can't help himself" or something. You know, like how he's a pervert/lolicon to the female Vocaloids or he's an idiot that screws everything up. Why can't he just be a good and cheerful guy who genuinely cares for once..?

Or Len. Poor Len. He's either so feminine he becomes a trap, or, in a few cases AN ACTUAL WOMAN, or he's just the standard uke. Seme, I guess if you're into that.

Maybe I'm going too in-depth for programs, but if you want to portray them, why not actually make personalities other than throwing yaoi stereotypes or hell, just character traits onto them? It makes the ships seem worse because it doesn't feel genuine. Again, just feels like friends with benefits. Not lovers.

5. The behavior: the shippers.

Fujoshi in general are not very pleasant. Not in my experience, at least.

Tbh not many Vocaloid shippers are pleasant. You got people arguing over whom Miku dates, whether Kaito x Miku is better or Kaito x Meiko is, Rin x Len vs. Len x Miku, Kaito shipping in general, the shipping section in this fandom is mostly terrible. Maybe not mostly but somewhat. It makes up one of the shitty parts of the Vocaloid fandom. The calmest part of the shippers are Gakupo shippers, and yuri fans. Everyone else tends to go batshit arguing over couples.

"They're PROGRAMS. GAH, why do you care so much?! Why was this rant even made, just ignore it and casually enjoy the songs!!"

Again, I'm in the part of the fandom that likes giving them personalities. That's why I don't just blow it over, because I'm part of this side of the fandom. I only have myself to blame but just saying.

Also, uh Hetarenaide yo!! Onii-chan! Exists. That's a thing.

Long story short, the yaoi community, is just.. I don't like it. There's barely any actual good fans I've seen, they're all rabid fangirls who think shipping real people is okay?? That's creepy?? Stop. Unless they're actually dating, stop.. please..

(Note: there are rabid hetero fans, but I've yet to personally see a rabid yuri fan like I have hetero and yaoi)

6. Conclusion

Okay, so. Here's the big question:

To any yaoi fans or shippers, or people in general on this wiki that read my nonsense or anything, please, answer me this. In your thoughts.

Why the hell is yaoi so popular in the fandom?

Is it for sex appeal? If that's it, I'm going to be upset.

Is it because it's hot? That's a shit reason, too.

Cute? How?

I don't get it, what am I missing? I don't just mean in Vocaloid, if anyone could explain why yaoi is such a phenomenon in their words, please do. I honestly don't see it.

But hey, it's unavoidable, you'll get ships, you'll get porn, you'll get yaoi. I get that. I just wanted to share my thoughts and ask why you guys think it's popular. If this gets read at all. 