Talk:Macne Nana V4/@comment-37896274-20190925032056/@comment-53539-20191014144435

The Kagamines are among the most pirated Vocaloids.

The Kagamines had LQ samples and results, so even stuff they were good at wasn't as good as it should have been and thats the trouble. Its the same thing wrong with Sonika. GIGO; Garbage in, garbage out. If you start off with a good vocal in theory it has more ability to suffer from abuse, whereas a bad vocal collapses too fast and you don't get good results. IF one was after purposely robotic results then Vocaloid isn't the vocal synth for you and why it was one of the few options, Chipspeech serves an ideal purpose to do that with.

I'd argue Yukari wasn't made for everyone, she was a more specialised vocal then Miku, since she was made more for ballads. Miku wasn't even herself made for everyone. Meiko with her traits not dedicated to standing out was more the "everyone's girl" vocal, in fact in V2's development Miku was made purposely with heavy vocal traits to stand out for Meiko who had nothing that stood out. And Meiko was designed that way...

As for the Kagamines Act1 in general... Look... Compared to Miku and most of the Vocaloids that follows the Kagamines Act1 stood out in that you could barely understand it. They somewhat failed at what they were made for when you read the description of their vocals, which was being power type vocals with clear tones and sounds. "Clear" being the magic word, their vocals collasped too quickly which also meant "power" was lost. Basically, what made the Kagamines bad is that compared to how they were described and how they came out, it wasn't true. Act2 fixed most of the problems but not completely and "power" Kagamines Append vocals were basically described by some who had them as a sort of Act3, which becomes more apparent in V4x thats what it is. So it took 3 attempts to fix the vocal in V2 before CFM produced a HQ version in the Append version. This is the problem with the Kagamines in V2, even as vocal synths sometimes you barely understand what their saying.

When fans say something is "the best" their using Cognitive bias under the presumption "I like it therefore it is good" or a form of a logic. There is SO MUCH of this form of bias that I'm not surprised anyone including you uses it. The only way to know the true quality of any Vocaloid even when owning it is to throw the voice into sound engineering style software to analyse the sound samples on all the various different wavelengths. And most on't how that kind of software or know how to do it (or think to do it) to fully look at the vocal sample quality.

There is an argument "if you don't own a voicebank you shouldn't comment on it!" but I've also seen people who do own vocals flat out deny there is anything wrong with the vocals they use. Like if they own a vocal that could do better results and they know it, they still will use a Vocaloid that doesn't do the job as well because of things that usually amount to "I like this vocal". Just because you own a vocal doesn't... mean... you actually know what your talking about. I own Sonika and I've seen some people say she isn't as bad as people make her out to be, yet when I use Big Al, Prima or Tonio... The results are remarkable. And there are people who think because they don't know how to use Tonio or Prima correctly, that they are bad vocals (Prima's technically the best vocal in V2 in English, since her quality is the highest and she gives the most realistic performance, but she was never beginner friendly so most can't use her).

Rin is generally better then Len. On the upstart, because he is voiced by a female Len has a habit of sounding female too often, particularly outside of the recommended ranges of each vocal, but he CAN do that even within his best ranges. His voice is the most technically altered and since since V2 some depth of tone to give him more masculine traits because the provider can't always make her voice sound enough male-like and this makes that realism even worst! Rin is a lot more natural/less forced and has a habit of producing more more pleasant results. There is less voice acting required with the Rin vocal then the Len vocal in general and the editing is a lot less stressful on her vocal. So Rin ends up better then Len because CFM aren't really having to gut the vocal as much. Len's vocal has that problem of it sounds not enough like a pre-pubtery and not enough like a post puberty because a female was used for it. Len's vocal is full of problems before you even start constructing it and it compares out worst for it then Rin's.

CFM prefers their vocals to have a slight roboticness so CFM vocals having roboticness is somewhat a little bit unsurprisingly. Its especially true if your messing around with EVEC.