Talk:Kagamine Rin/Len/@comment-27034016-20151128005154/@comment-53539-20151202213112

Well the have two more vocals between them then Luka V4x... But as I said before the Kagamines always feel like their two bite-sized CFM vocaloids and never like a full blown CFM Vocaloid. Though there is 6 vocals, if you seperate them, there is less for Rin or Len in this package then there was for Luka.

Its kinda the problem, when you boil down to it. Even in terms of EVEC... There is only one EVEC voicebank and it has two options.

I have always had a theory that what limits the Kagamines in terms of potential vocals is trying to get two characters from the same person. Len can't sound too much like Rin and Rin can't sound too much like Len. So it really divides things up and limits what you can do with the voices. For Luka and Miku, it doesn't matter so much so because whatever the vocalist comes up with is still Miku or Luka.

Top it off, they were always a power type vocal, which is the classic type Vocaloid has a long history of not dealing very well with. Their reputation isn't great, so traditionally the Kagamines have had a hard time being loved as voicebanks in general... Even their Appends were well met and quickly lost attention within a year of release ad has spent most of the time off the charts... Even before the V3 engine was released (while Miku Append managed to grab at least 6-8th place for a few years after its release).

Then you get to Len... And his representation as a masculine vocal. Which made him the least realistic vocal in the CV CFM series. Because its really in truth a deep female vocal and not a male vocal. But thats another issue. In the Japanese fandom, a lot of the tie his usage comes only because people were originally after Rin and he happens to be also included... Truth be told, their purpose is mostly centred around harmonies, same as Zola and Anon/Kanon. Doesn't mean they can't do other things...

The package primary also really focused on Rin for the most part and Len's always been a second thought, even with the V4 update a lot of the early stuff tended to focus on Rin more then Len. Its normally because Rin is the first voice they traditionally recorded and then they do Len to match her afterwards. :-/

I won't say the fandom is "niche" ("niche" is the word of the day it seems) but you really either love or hate them. I hate their voices myself, can't stand Rin and find nothing attractive on Len's vocal. But here in the western fandom, as well as the vocals themselves being known for their reputation (unless you're one of *those* fans who think Len and/or Rin is "THE BEST VOCAL EBER!!1111!!!!1!"), their fans have a worst rep then even the Miku fans. They clog up nearly EVERY video with petty arguments over their relationship; a issue we SHOULDN'T be discussing 6 or so years later when all others have died.

I think this is generally a lot of the problems the pair face. Its a stack of little things that just pile up. It doesn't take much to knock it down either. I will say Luka was much better overall received then the pair, even though she isn't ness. superior in terms of popularity. Luka's proble is that she has always tended to be a little more advance then most producers want... Even her V4x package is not ness. noob-friendly. Whereas Miku tends to be more suited for beginners and up.

Either way... I'm one of the many who isn't looking forward to this release. If someone can say "step aside Oliver, we have Kaito" for Kaito English, I am not looking forward to explaining tbhings... Like... that Len is a V4 and Oliver is a V3 and blah, blah blah, Oliver more realistic portrayal, doesn't matter, voice for the right genre of music. Len and Oliver do different things. Etc, etc, accent, British versus Japanese at least British is a native language, whatever... Full stop.. Don't give a damn... Just shut up, enjoy Vocaloid and give me a cookie before my brain explodes from repeating myself. Because for me personnally, I've never had to deal with the English versus Japanese bias in the western fandom then when it always boils down to dealing with CFM related fans... *sigh* especially ones who think their the best Vocaloids ever made or like them but don't know what the fudge Vocaloid is... *groan*. I hate being in this fandom at times... =_=

In more serious note, I'm under a impression that while Len is normally a after thought... Their English vocals may be a "vocal for the sake of it". We've heard next to nothing on these two vocals. We're told their natural sounding English, but I'm beginning to feel like CFM isn't too confident on them. :-/