Talk:Kagamine Rin & Len/@comment-162.243.167.53-20190417010402/@comment-53539-20190417084642

Lens actually the least realistic of the CFM, just because his a male vocal voiced by a female vocalist. A lot of his voicebanks are artificially manipulated to sound slightly boyish (its common for CFM to do this, we know about this technique, other studios also do this so its not a big deal). Rin is overall considered more natural sounding and generally better, but neither vocal is the provider's "natural" voice. The Kagamines are very much a product of voice acting, CFM's most realistic vocal (discounting Meiko andKaito here as their not true CFM vocals) is Luka.

Fukase is a true male vocal and is considered more realistic then Len. Plus unlike Len... His English is considered one of the two better Japanese -> English of V4, the other being Nana. The Kagamine's aren't the most beautiful and there are others that are able to produce better results, from V3 we have the normal IA vocal which is opera-like at times and considered one of the best vocals V3 had to offer.

Sadly, for all of us who want Miku to stop hogging the spotlight, the reality is this won't happen. Miku's pretty much the top selling Vocaloid and after coming up to 12 years this year of Miku being no.1, the reality is things have come too far. I have for about 4 years now said to people its better to wish well on other Vocaloids then wish ill on Miku, because its wasted effort. There are, however, much easier to use vocals then Miku, but people use her because its Miku. Popularity breeds popularity.

Una was the only Japanese V4 to get popular, while here in the west she doesn't stand out so well, in Japan she did exceptionally for herself. It was mostly due to the fact she had alarge range and two voicebanks. In the Internent group, the only other Vocaloid who matched her range was Kokone, who has some issues with her falsetto vocal not making her ness. easy to work with. So you'll be pleased to know, she is doing well. ^_^

While Miku's been getting better over the versions, she wasn't very realistic to begin with, in fact she was one of the lesser realistic vocals of V2. She is voice acted, and even her Appends are voice acted in addition. Voice acting is used to achieved a certain quality of the vocal but not ness. record the natural traits of the Vocaloid.

As I mentioned as well, CFM is known to also manipulate their voicebanks to achieve a certain quality and are known to do things like even re-use samples for multiple voicebanks. Even Luka originally wasn't realistic sounding, though has become more realistic in V4x. The reason for Luka's EVEC being half what it is, is because realistic vocals work better for EVEC then not. It ultimately isn't that useful as a tool, but it works better for realistic vocals as they sound more natural when you apply unnatural manipulations to it like EVEC.

That said, bare in mind that natural vocals like Sachiko, don't always sound good. You get all of the strengths of the human vocal... Plus all of the weaknesses when you go realistic, so these vocals sound good when they sound good... But can sound really bad when their not sounding good.

I'll also add, while CFM have been slowly enlarge Miku's overall vocal range, its still small and the average vocal coming out now has bigger vocal ranges. Aside from Rana and Lumi, who had small tempo/vocal ranges on par with V2, all of the post V3 vocals (with exceptions like Rana and Lumi) are better at what they do. Even if we look at Meiko and count her as a CFM entirely and not one thats been adopted... Mirai is the same vocal type as Meiko and outclasses Meiko's normal straight vocal in every way. So Meiko only outclasses Mirai in the end because she has English and more voicebanks, so can cover more tone variations.

Its the same for Miku, she is out classed by literally dozens of Vocaloids in every possible way, except her number of voicebanks. And while Gumi has more voicebanks then her... Gumi's problem is that all of them do more or less a similar thing while Miku's voicebanks can be like having a similar but different Vocaloid to Miku.

Its okay to love faulty vocaloids, everyone likely has at least 1 on their favourites list (Big Al and Tonio for me). But having been in this fandom for years, I can so its heart breaking when I write replies like this. People will adore how a Vocaloid sounds and like it, believing it to be the best... When you know these days, their best is outclassed by another Vocaloid. Heck, we've got vocaloids that can now sound like Rin and Len (it comes with having so many females). The only vocals not apparently heavily replaced now are Kaito and Miku herself, but there are alternatives that come close to Miku like VY1. Meiko and the Kagamines have entered "common vocal type" ranges for a while now, with Meiko being in there for about 9 years almost while the Kagamines just have a lot of vocaloids that overlap their ranges and tones. Its a simple case, however, that over 10 years and so many releases that this was bound to happen and as of V4... We can't shy away from the issue of Vocaloids sounding alike, because its been confirmed as an issue.

While this is the reality of the situation, don't let the negativity hit you badly. I like the Chipspeech software's vocals and their not even attempting to sound realistic. Everyone is entitled to like something, and nobody is allowed to step on it. Its better to love something despite its weaknesses, to love it and ignore them.