Talk:Kagamine Rin & Len V4 English/@comment-37896274-20190108020904/@comment-53539-20190108085224

The older ones were done to an average of 20 seconds or so with a basic formula of;


 * 1) Vocaloid says their name
 * 2) Who made them
 * 3) Their purpose
 * 4) a random sentence

But this isn't definitive and its up for debate, I'm not sure if the Discord server is even discussing this as it doesn't work for me. Bunai could sort that out. The trouble was that compared to doremi, a lot of people seem to come up stump on what to say and although the tune isn't complex, they just draw a blank. This is why our count of these samples sat at 6 overall and has been forgotten for a long time until someone brought it up. Technically that project was never abandon, its just hard to progress forward. You wouldn't believe a samples which has to up to 30 secs could be such a problematic sample...

But... there is also the issue of them showing off certain bad points of a Vocaloid which even back in the early part of V3, few wanted to do. Even if you don't ave the sample showing off any glitches, you have the issue of this is a sample in the RAW, untuned state, flat out Vocaloid singing with no autotuned or mixing to hide how crude synth results can be. And thus it creates an unwillingness to do the sample. Even at VO forums, I got asked several times about Big Al's croakiness in the sample and responded with "yes, he is like that", but of all 4 English vocaloids I could use he is the only one without the plucking sound issue which hits even Japanese Vocaloids, so there can be negativity about the samples. People would rather show off the Vocaloids at their best, but that is useless and we don't need that because we have many demos and lyric pages around the wiki.

BTW, a quick note on where the whole thing comes from...

Some think we're bias, but even when the comment sections may contain comments like my often do expressing opinions, the pages themselves are written to be as unbiased as its possible with the information given and they *have* to be neutral. So the samples were never bias, they were just a way of bringing all Vocaloids done to equal status and showing how Vocaloids sound when their not in the hands of the master products. Its like this, these days a V1 expert can make a V1 vocal sound almost as good as a lot of modern vocals, but back when I picked up Lola they didn't even know that was possible so a lot of older pre-2007 stuff is rather crude and it was easy to judge all Vocaloids based on existing material. The result was pure cherry picking on the fandoms part, in other words, the whole thing started with all our samples because the fandom itself was kinda bias in the first place. So I did this as bureaucrat, which also I guess lead to dorime, to bring all Vocaloids down to equal level and show bidding producers, those without Vocaloid and general readers how the Vocaloids actually sound when they didn't have access to them or refused to buy them. The reality was, there wasn't much difference in it and they knew.