Talk:Kagamine Rin & Len/@comment-153.107.192.205-20180824001010/@comment-53539-20190309094341

I generally don't like the voice myself on a technical level, its not one of the greatest and I find it grating. Rin isn't much better, there are a small number of Vocaloids whose voices I don't like, including Gumi's because I now find it "boring". Len has never appealed to me because I got introduced to the Act1 vocals first and his was disappointing. Act2 wasn't much better though even I could hear the improvements. I basically joined as a Engloid fan and, save Sonika, they more or less more appealed to me because I was long done with the "anime stage" of my life by 2006.

I starting lurking in late 2009, joining in 2010 to this fandom after a fallout and general disappointment in one of the artists behaviour at Dragon cave. I didn't plan to stick around for 9 years, 3 tops, but I'm still here because I liked the fandom and its fans despite my issues and love their software. I also joined the fandom with the attitude of "not getting too attached". But the time I even really started to get to know a lot of the V2 vocals, V3 was already here and there was so much excitement and buzz.

On top of that, as Len was only a Japanese vocaloid, I had basically gotten to the stage wherein I was sick of the pro-Japanese and anti-Engloid attitude that was over dominate in those days. Len was one fo those vocaloids that stood out for the wrong reasons as even now we get the same handful of comments about him, like his and Rin's relationship, and it a number of fans gave their fellow Len fans a bad reputation for their over obsessive behaviour. Many treated Len as though he was a God among Vocaloid, when even Piko could out do the Act1 and Act2 voicebanks.

Some of the obsession was generally creepy and I've seen people try it on here with it basically being paedophilia, which I despise eventually as I believe kids should be allowed to have their innocence and adults should know better and treat children with respect, as they don't know better biology and mentality. Even adults don't "know better" until 25 years old apparently when it comes to issues like Sex. After the Beyblade fandom had creeped me out with that sort of thing in the past, it just made Len more unappealing because I was creeped out knowing what fans like in a 14 year old boy, as well as Len. I generally don't care much about porn and the like, but I don't go around preaching that its all wrong, I ignore stuff based on adults like Luka, its only the kids I draw the line on. But generally, the fans reaction can prove to be a off putting for certain characters, I generally prefer some of the quieter "child" vocals over the Kagamines because there is less fans making this sort of thing and I'm less likely to meet it. So there is the fact certain elements go against my belief that puts me off of Len too and I don't like encountering it at all.

That leads me to the main issue I have against Len and why that is. Even in terms of the avatar, I am 34 years old so a 14 year old boy has little appeal and I much prefer someone like Tonio's avatar. Len wouldn't even be someone I liked when I was younger as I was more into the type of character that Kai from Beyblade represented, and to points I still like that type of character. So you can expect me to have a very different opinion and POV of certain characters for my age alone compared to a 13 year old kid who is more Len's age.

A lot of little things amount to the fact I don't like Len. Its never been his overall popularity though, as aside from the fact Miku's face is everywhere popularity has never been the main contributor to if I like Vocaloids. Except when it helped me to decide I didn't like Miku as no matter how many of the hundreds of songs I've listened to, I still don't like her voice, but the sheer number of songs for Vocaloids like the CFM has helped me decide easily and very much if I do or don't like their vocals. This is why when I say that the Kagamines and Miku are my least favourite Vocaloids, I say it with absolute certainty as I gave them a lot more attempts to appeal to me than a lot of other Vocaloids.

There are many vocaloids due to their lesser usage I find difficult to decide on hence the huge "meh" category for me in Vocaloid, and we're at the stage wherein a lot of Vocaloids have trouble standing out, with same-y sounding voices being recognised as a legit problem particularly among the Japanese Vocaloids. So I pretty much say that what Vocaloids are set in stone for me are not going to change at all, since its been 9 years and these Vocaloids have already shown me a lot of what they will offer in the long run. Even if you add more content to the vocal, you cannot change the core voice and often its the core voice itself that is the problem, which is why only Miku Dark appeals as the other Miku vocals have too many things I don't like about Miku in them.

I'm sorry for the essay length reply, there are just lots of little reasons why. There are only two Vocaloids I generally dislike for petty reasons, that is Luka and Maika, but thats because their fans are not annoying, but generally frustrating to deal with. Luka fans overexaggerate how good she is and panic at the slightest drop of negativity towards how her product is and is doing. Maika fans just like to make out she is Godly in term of languages and it can get tiredsome to explain the same thing over and over again especially when ti comes to veteran fans who should "know better" at this stage as it was corrected as far back as Sonika. Especially when other fans want to do things like make out she is as good at English as English Vocaloids, even when this was prove false many a time in the past. Aside from the "relationship" status, the Kagamine fans generally aren't all that bad and have gotten better in the last few years, particularly as more other Vocaloids are getting known now like Fukase, so attention is slowly etching away from the Kagamines. This is actually really doing the pair a great service, though due to their popularity their obviously not going to have complete loss of their annoying fans.

But overall, yeah, I don't like Len and likely will never. On a closing note, before I first joined Vocaloid I didn't know Miku was one as I'd encountered Vocaloid within Soundation magazine and it was entirely different to what Miku represents. So the last issues I have to saw is generally Len and Rin, along with Miku of course, initially just looked like generic anime characters with the typical school-kid theme I was used to seeing. I had trouble seeing how they stood out and was surprised when someone at Dragoncave said Miku was a Vocaloid. From someone who only knew Vocaloid from Leon, Lola and Miriam, it was a big thing and is the only reason my curiosity got perked. But Miku's design resulted in me not joining the fandom sooner for this reason, so I do consider her and the Kagamine's design a issue for people in the same situation, as I can't be the only one to have that opinion at first glance of Miku.