Board Thread:Off-Topic Discussion/@comment-6433273-20151126190829/@comment-25618373-20151214001806

Fima 007 wrote: EmbraceEvil wrote: Fima 007 wrote: EmbraceEvil wrote: HoneyCandiez wrote: What do you mean the anime design is required by Yamaha?

Ruby wasn't anime, and Yamaha's own VY series isn't anime either... with exceptions of course their own vocaloids.

her current designs is anime enough, and as far as we know that pink design never made it to yamaha.

remember the changes to Avanna?

@Fima ahhhhhh i meant to write fandom, not fandumb.

i can't understand the rest of your comment. But you actually wrote it! Sorry, didnt meant to troll you in any way...

I mean why the company switched to decide release the software for general use, rather than, just for companies only.(hello windows server and a vl-corporate versions...) After the several first packages was a fail,(Leon, Lola, maybe Miriam too) they tried do something with anime avatars stuff, it worked,(at least on their domestic market, KaiMei) but was considered a fail overseas too. Then, their hired guns created the Miku Hype. What kind of a HoleInTheHead needed to ignore the cosequnces it would have... Fusing the heart heat of an anime fandom with hi-grade audiovisual motor oil with hi-tech syntheisis additives. On top of that, they added a bunch of CP issues spiced with bad financial, and overall project management fails. Only time will tell, how deep our grave woud be. Just remember what happen with FM/VECTOR synteisis, and you may feel it in the same way. i think yamaha just wanted to make a lot ofmoney of it, so that's why it's a commercial product if that's what ur asking. also, hence why japanese vocaloids have always had those designs.

in japan, pretty much everything gets an anime design. it's a non-issue there because it's a norm.i don't think leon and lola had any influence on it. it started in the west with Sonika, who was an attempt at cashing in on Miku's fame from what i've heard. And as I've said before, vocaloid seems to still rely on the fandom at least somewhat, to what extent i'm not sure. Until that need is gone it's likely Yamaha will still requiire the anime design, tho they aren't always very easy to predict so idk. also, i don't think it was advertisement by crypton that lead to miku's popularity. i think it was just because people thought she was 'cute' in both voice and design, at least that's what led to her popularity. i don't think anyone would be able to predict this would happen. pretty sure it surprised everyone. also, while vocaloid may not be at it's peak anymore in japan (i'm not going into the whole is vocaloid losing popularity argument) it is definently improving with English Vocaloids, plus the Chinese Vocaloids seem to be doing pretty well too.

not sure what some project management you're talking about, and i'm not familiar with FM/Vector. Dammit, the editbox was a such crap! >:(((  (lost a long post again!)

If they want make some big cash on it, okay, go for it, but not with this strategy of course. In our time it wont work.

I think we have different views what happened with the software long ago, so here's my point in it:

Im gonna be rude, and say that the whole software we striving for, is not a syntheiser. It's an very, (and a wiki about it) like the those are installed on motif series, and the others as well.(kronos, fantom g) Sorry if i broke someone's heart off.

Now to what i(or say we?) should both know/hear on vc's story: The whole project is started from spain, several years after a last member of a DX(DX200) family was left in the shroud. Later yamaha funded(bought) it and tried to turn it into a corporate commercial product.(e.g. not for individuals to buy, only for companies use.) They was almost everywere denied, and ridiculed:

"The CEO of Crypton Future Media noted the lack of interest in Vocaloids overall was put down to the lack of response in the initial Vocaloid software. With regard to the development of the English version of the software specifically, many studios when approached by Crypton Future Media for recommendations towards developing the English Vocaloids had no interest in the software initially, with one particular company representative calling it a "toy". A level of failure was put on Leon and Lola for lack of sales in the United States, putting the blame on their British accents.[22] "

So, figuring out that this is wont do, they allowed commercial distribution to indivisuals, as well changed the engine structure to rely more on their vocal samples.(Unlike the first engine, Vocaloid 2 based its results on vocal samples, rather than analysis of the human voice.[1]  - Wikipedia)

"Prior to the release of the Hatsune Miku product, CFM had also noted there was some criticism at choosing to release the original engine as a commercial licensing product, although felt that the choice was for the better of the engine. Furthermore, it was noted that the original engine felt more like a prototype for future engine versions.[23] "

To appeal the masses they need some sort of a image for their virtual vocals, an "avatar" as we often imply here. So, the first of those, was developed for the CFM's "CV" series. that goes by the CV-01 codename.



Here's im gonna deviate again, on behalf of a "Miky's" popularity, and nail the pepole to the wall, that Miku was not the first to do it, nor she represents something new. Im call some name, but you must find differences between them yourself: Usagi "Sailor moon" Tsukino. If you are older than a 15 years, you should already know her.



Okay, back on track: The combination of cute anime-esque design and a specifically crafted voice for it, really did some attention to the software, but from what TA/CA? Everyone, except the pros. So what you expect from this type of pepole? Of couse not everyone have the skills of a pro, or financial resouces of theirs, though here may be excections on this. (i want to mention the pepole with strong will and courage, but lack of resouces and a lot of free time) Thats how the various "unlicensed" versions step up in the history. The history since third installment of the engine you may know already, but im clarify that it thrives on Miku popularity right now.

So to sum it up, If yamaha is not going to treat their current audience like a normal pepole, the trend was set to die, as was happen with their previous they developed over time. I see what need to tweak for fixing the current situation, but the post is already that long, so only by a request.



Yeah, another deviation here. if you dont know what these types of syntheizers i mentioned, Where the hell you have been,[http://vocaloid.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:EmbraceEvil EmbraceEvil ?!? ]for these several decades. I'll describe several of them, but please, stay more informed in the future, okay?

Everyone kows Miku right? But who knows on what syntheizer and technology she was built upon? On the most famous DX series, and you-know-what-syntheizer that sports an a Frequency Modulation-type syntheisis, hence, the FM abbreviation(and a whole reason for casio to built their CZ series on a other method than this.)

Next stop is the Vector syntheisis and a AWM system. AWM is the short for Advanced Wave Memory, that is used for samples, quite similar to what our engine do. VSE paragraf on it(tan from here):

"''"AWM is Yamaha's original system for effectively using sampled waveforms in synthesizers and tone generators. The strength of AWM synthesis lies not only in its extraordinary ability to "shape" and control the sound of the samples with a comprehensive system of envelope generators, filters, key scaling parameters, modulation, and more. AWM voices can have from 1 to 4 AWM elements. Each AWM element can use a preset wave or a sampled waveform. The ability to combine AWM elements means that you can, for example, combine separate samples for the attack and sustain portions of an instrument's sound, with independent control over each.''"

As for vector syntheisis, you can read it here, though ill not stay there for long. How it relates to our characters? In the same way that it was done with Miku. The soul behind Kagamine's is not alone, but represented with a line of syntheyzers that have the above capabilities plus the FM engine: The EOS series. In the original design they used a EOS B200 synth, but in the Act 2 they(apparently matured?) updated the instrument to EOS B900(video of it).

And for the last, but not least)) (its a 0300 am afterall)) - the Physical modelling syntheisis, which is the core part of a deep, somewhat sexy voice of Megurine and a pioneering tech for her voice: The yamaha VL series(youtube link one, and two, as they is very rare today)



Dammit again! >:D the time was almost 0400AM. So excuse me, gonna get some recharge/rest/sleep. Ill try to answer tomorrow, sorry. regardless of popualarity, japanese vocaloids were going to have anime avatars. that is how japan works. tons of their products have mascots. furthermore, Yamaha has never been involved in the marketing of other companies vocaloids (well maybe leon and lola idk). They have final say in the designs and decide if the voice quality is good enough, but if they aren't allowing non-anime designs that obviously didn't start till after Oliver. finally, the trend is not dying. Japanese vocaloids are not at their peak anymore, but they are still popular. Engloid and Chinaloid are doing really well.

I also have no interest with those other synths, so i'm not going to read/watch that.