Board Thread:Off-Topic Discussion/@comment-6433273-20180322113157/@comment-53539-20180409111724

I don't think we can't express our opinions on things Chinese vocaloid related, the line to draw is when we discuss areas we don't know such as languages we don't know. I rarely comment on Chinese, Korean and Spanish in certain areas myself for this reason. I stick to Japanese and English because I have understanding in those areas. Its okay to comment on the designs and styles because frankly, its been going on anyway and you can't stop it. Most of the fans of Japanese vocaloids barely can speak Japanese, yet it have in 10 yeas not stopped any western fan commenting on them. The majority of overseas fans won't be able to comment on much else due to the language barrier then the design and so fourth for obvious language based reasons.

Sadly, I do understand some frustrations. As I highlighted about a month ago on VO forums, Voca responded to a post I make with Vocaloid2 myths. You can't stop people commenting on things even when their in the wrong and its obvious they don't know what their saying as its BS, sometimes you just have to let people talk. To me, when someone is in the wrong and can easily be proven wrong, the only thing that happens is they embarrass themselves. But you can't stop them doing it and sometimes its just a case of letting themselves embarrass themselves because sometimes, you just have to be cruel to be kind.

Also at this point the Chinese vocaloids aren't new and there are several voicebanks for them. I can understand some criticism at SeeU before Uni came along because there was only 1 of her. But once you have a dozen vocals for the software in a language, you have ideas on certain things working and not working. At this point, you have a "standard" of both quality of vocal and standard. ITs the same for Japanese, when Miku was released, she was "the best" of her time because V1 was so different to V2, and there was no competition. By the end of V2, there was more vocaloids and at this point, you knew how bad she was.

Even then, criticism shouldn't stop anyone loving a vocaloid, if it does it can say more for the individual then the Vocaloid itself. Even the best vocaloids can have their flaws and bad moments after all, and are not immune to criticism or people disliking them. Better to love something despite its flaws then pretend its flawless and love an illusion.

But still... The biggest issue does indeed remain that too often people make comments on things they lack information on. I still remember when Avanna popped up in the no.1 sales for Zero-G for her first year and the comments like "how badly have the other Zero-G products faired if Avanna is no.1". Likewise, there was a presumption that because of the events of Ruby, everything from PowerFX since has been a reaction, however... Until Bil left more Vocaloids were being planned but Soundation was taking over as PowerFX's main service provider since it got a large profit. ITs their most profitable endeavour. Ruby sold as well as all Vocaloid before her from PowerFX, which as I noted at VO forums, which actually the issue. The western fans WANT to believe not only they have more influence on Vocaloid, I swear this is the case at least, and seem to not be able to understand who is actually the main customers of Vocaloids. Even in Japan, its not the Otakus who buy the most vocaloids, they simply buy the merch and albums, its the DTM crowd who do so.

as for the Chinese vocaloids... There is a large population of China, and while the pirating is known to be high, due to the large population size I find it hard to believe she didn't mean criteria. They wouldn't have re-released Tianyi if she had been a complete flop. The only thing I will note is that its likely she had to rely on the larger population to get as much sales perhaps elsewhere, just because of the poor-rich divide in China and because of the large pirating.

To be honest, focus on getting information to counter arguments as I had to do, or alternatively... People are dumb, but individuals are smart. So focus on changing the opinion of the 1 person who will listen, as oppose to the many who wont'.

@earlier comment, I don't get how the issue with discussing IA English was "beating a dead horse". To me, beating a dead horse is a term you use to discuss something long after the issue remained. For example, to discuss it in a years time. Right now IA English is still fairly fresh. Essentially, your not asking anyone to stop discussing old news, you just don't want to discuss it or see it discussed at all... Which can come off as rude.

I find it hard to believe that English Vocaloid would come off as worst then CeVIO English, listening to both, so I'm not satisfied this is the reason at all. It may have been something else. I think there is just something here we're missing and we don't have all the information.

I can make guesses myself, such as IA English is being encouraged on CeVIO because there is either no competition or those behind CeVIO want IA on CeVIO not on Vocaloid. Yamaha doesn't really care if who makes vocaloids, as there is only a few that would impact Vocaloid if they left. There are a few other things to consider such as IA having to compete with more vocals in Vocaloid then CeVIO, CeVIO being quite popular (more so apparently in Japan then UTAU as hard as it is to believe).

There is also the possibility English still will come to Vocaloid. But in the end, all of these are guesswork on why it may have been the case. The only disappointment is how this was done originally, as I said there was no indication what was going to be Ia English and the way they did it was to focus on the English weaboo fans. So most voting were presuming the English vocal was for Vocaloid. Nobody wanted a CeVIO vocal when they voted. There was even a question on the survey which specifically targeted the anime fans and I can't remember it, but it mentioned anime. I did find it odd, and thinking about it... It may have been the "this is not a vocaloid" clue. But its far too lot to comment or criticise the survey, its over and old news.

The biggest issue I note is not much updating occurred between V3 and V4, with GWL and XSY being the only additions. Some Vocaloids didn't benefit from moving from V3 from V4 greatly, such as Rana, and without Nemu the same would be said for Tone Rion. So some vocal updates may be waiting for V5.

Speaking of V5, consider its expected next year and depending on when IA started production in English, depends on whether or not they felt she could get out before the end of V4. For each new engine, its better to get the vocals out early-mid engine lifespan then late, as too close to the next version can see producers shift to the newer engine before things can take off for the older version. Considering that English takes a year to a year and a half to make a English vocal, if you start making one at this point, its going to be for V5 possibly and not V4.