Talk:Flower/@comment-53539-20190101135810/@comment-53539-20190123230732

Ghost is not to blame for the fan behaviour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xctEF8BE61M

Fans are always much worst then the thing they are fan of someone. This is Mr. Enter explaining that he gets a lot of harassment from on-line people and it originates from certain other reviewers fans. Even when the original other reviewers apologise, because they said what they did to get the ball going, much time later afterwards Mr.Enter was still getting hate. It all amounts to him just overreacting to cartoons, just opinions from 1 guy who often says what needs to be said I feel about certain things. I'm a fan of Mr. Enter myself and I honestly have had points I disagree, but I'm also a MovieBob fan and there are PLENTY of times I disagree with his smart-ass "I know more then you idoit" reactions. So none of that is Ghost's fault, he made music that brought fans together, as Ghost themselves doesn't use male/female titles as normal, a bunch of the fans of his feel more open to express themselves around Ghost's work, which leads to the problem. You then get a snowball effect therefore afterwards where even with Ghost now closing comments, enough fans have seen the original ideas of Flower being a trans at this point and its got a small following.

To me, its a simple of case of Flower is female because she was designed that way by the devs and I've always seen it as disrespectful to force a character someone else designed to fit one's ideals. Every fandom I've been with I've basically tried to imagine a character as the original creator designed in and the only headcanon was just filling in blanks. Its because going back to my early net days there was a strong reaction to OOC characters, its like with some anime fans they just watched a show because of cute boys in it, but when asked if they knew the characters few could actually pin their personalities down. So when they wrote Fanfiction the tall mysterious guy because some love sap romantic guy that made me want to hurl my breakfast and left me wondering if I was watching the same show. Worst if there was a self-inserted Mary-sue there in the writing.

Japan has different issues related to LGBT, imagine it like multiple doors and some swing one way and others another. On the one hand a lot of cultures around the world seem LGBT issues as humiliating for the family with 1 member of the family like that. The idea is you want your bloodline to continue no matter what and you *have* to produce a son to inherit the wealth, any daughter is 2nd rate and just there to bring in a son-in-law, etc. Japan has a mixture of this but acceptance in some other ways, I can't remember much about it, but I remember the admin of a Japanese and English Beyblade community (it split due to ignorant English speakers insulting the Japanese and generally disrespect becoming two communities)… Yuri and the such are often supported even by straight people in Japan. So a lot of artwork for Beybladae as generally guy x guy stuff for this reason. I can't remember much else but Beholder said this was common among the Japanese fandoms, as they never had an issue with it. (they did have an issue with western fans stealing their artists artwork though).

Augris is male, they changed that afterwards to genderless, makes me wonder if its them just spinning on things as this happened with Daina already... So I have no idea whats going on with it and personnelly until its released I'm not going to say much, an unpolished concept/voicebank/design is not worth talking too much about as anything changes at a moments notice. I think the issue is with PowerFX gone we're going to see a slow down of Vocaloids since Augris group used them previously... It all falls down just to Zero-G to provide. Not good, who knows how this will impact things, but PowerFX was the "other option" company ad Zero-G the super professional, so that will impact Augris perhaps going forward? Who knows.

I actually wrote something about Augris' artist, but I just deleted it. I think its bad a few members of Oliver's group were among a certain crowd at VO forums, there are a few members who spent a couple of the years of VO I knew them running down English Vocaloid. To see them now working with English Vocaloid... Well... Leaves me mixed feelings, because I cannot get over their bias and bigoted comments in 2010-2012.

You have to approach Vocaloids as "Design", "provider", "Development" and "voicebank" as separate things. Otherwise you end up messing up Vocaloids like Iroha. ITs the best way to treat it I find it. The provider may have given Iroha her voice, but their gender issues only impact the traits of the vocal and not the Vocaloid. So the provider is separated from the character of Iroha no matter what. Iroha can straight, gay, bisexual, etc, there is no confirmed sexuality and therefore it doesn't matter what you think of them. Like with Flower, the gender is female and thats it, filling in the blanks is fine because there are just so many beyond that. The provider gave the voice, but the producer is the one who uses the Vocaloid, its just a tool, a means to an end. While Iroha's voicetype is in question, thats fine because it doesn't define the entirety of who Iroha is, just how she sounds. ^_^

I honestly struggle to even understand songs in Japanese, not even non-Vocaloid Japanese songs are good for me. I have issues with speech in English and thats my native language, so the issue is verbal in general related. I find reading easier for non-English words and I can read some German and simple Japanese. I can't read technically stuff and don't get me started on Chinese words that leaked into Japanese. Its enough to read comments and pick up the odd thing or two, but not enough to be, say, a manga translator. So to me, I just can't comment on Japanese songs in terms of lyrics, I can comment on the music thats it. I tend to find because I don't really understand speech, Vocaloids in Japanese always were more synth-sounding, hence why I never believed the BS about how superior they were in V2 from places like VO forums. Plus I grew up with robotic synths that sounded really bad so... It was just easier to be super critical about how good Vocaloid is, always has been. When you listen to Two-faced lovers and all you here is nonstop noise and not much lyrics, you focus less on understanding the lyrics and more on how bad it all sounds. >_<'

I haven't much more to say on DoE that hasn't already been said. The fact people still talk about it is good, but not good at the same time. I just wish it wasn't often considered the highlight of Vocaloid, especially as there is better works now. The fact stuff is still being produced for it, also stands a testament that its ascended a mere song series, but a lot of the time the merch is just of the first song or of Len/Rin. The rest of the series doesn't seem see any promotion. It reminds me of how in recent years in terms of Pokemon, the gen 1 has seen so much promotion and later generations so much neglect. :-?

I find talking to noobs is frustrating because half the time they don't want to be corrected. The other half of the time they don't care. There is a certain part of the fandom that doesn't also give two hoots about Vocaloid being a software, its just horny teenagers it seems who like the characters and want to put them in diapers or make their fat fetish come true or... Just buy the software when they do because its Len singing and they don't actually know how to use it. So there is this part of the fandom too, on top of the "motherly female" type. I know in Japan there is a theory of elder men liking young teenager female characters as they feel its a "father-daughter" relationship. As creepy as it is, they were noted to be protective just like a real father would.