So Bunai and I are having a bit of a disagreement in relevant to a topic. You can read it there ;
https://vocaloid.fandom.com/f/p/3294873499205736441
So I feel okay, this discuss whats relvent to Vocaloid and whats not.
The core pages; without them, we're not "the Vocaloid wiki", thei 100% safe as the entire wiki could exist with just them.
All software powered by Vocaloid technology. Its pretty obvious and goes without saying.
All characters that have voicebanks made for Vocaloid. While some like Miku are moving on, they will always have a page here , its just only going to talk about the Vocaloid side.
Information on companies that supported Vocaloid development or products that used Vocaloid.
(Edit: I'm going to add a note, yes, yes, the wiki can survived with just these pages. Bunai, I've asked you a few times to add song pages to some of the other synth wikis, you have not. This is the status that those wikis are left in as a consequence. I don't know how to set up the song pages and no one else with the abilities has rush to this task either. So yes, if those wikis can survive like this, so this one can. Hence why thee pages are going no where.)
Secondary pages; We don't need them, but they are still supportive of the Vocaloid software and its characters, they basically help flesh out the wiki. While individual pages can be argued, these are generally safe.
Songs powered by Vocaloids
Games using songs powered by Vocaloid, so while Project Diva is featuring Vocaloid songs, thats fine in other words.
Live events or otherwise where Vocaloid technology of some form is either the topic of the event or used in the event.
Books on the Vocaloid characters and engine
Sheet music books that are based on Vocaloid songs
Merchandise and tie-in promos linked to Vocaloid content (i.e. Lily was a promotional product released for Animo.v.e., so she has a tie-in as a promo to the band)
Tutorials on how to use Vocaloid.
Vocaloid character "backstory" pages like Ice Mountain.
Wiki pages; we have them for the sake of editors and to make things run smoothly. I don't know how many times I've had to rely on these pages as a quick reference. Bunai has made other such lists... But... They aren't always useful or get referenced or... Even updated. Other lists exist, but they need more work to stand out.
The Status on Vocaloid page
The Vocaloids page
So what doesn't belong here; Because I need to answer this for Bunai. At best, none of these are powered by Vocaloid technology and at best minor links to Vocaloid. Some of these pages are being kept here just because people want them it seems, whether or not their relevant and this is becoming a problem.
Other synths - there are a few that are in limbo, but there are wikis for the UTAU, CeVIO, Synth V, Chipspeech, Alter/ego,etc. These wikis link directly to us but have no pages on us and the justifications always been "because of the influence Vocaloid has had on them". These wikis have, however, no pages on other wikis. A simple removal of their pages and redirects to the other wikis cuts us out as acting as the middle man and benefits us all. Ifnromation needs to be on the respective wiki, if related and thats it.
In terms of UTAU, O Herman had this circling argument on the Dsicord that went around in circles... The only solid reason for UTAU being here is the definition of the name being "Manual Vocaloid" and a prank. with Teto and the other Vippers. Thats it. We already link to most other UTAU to their pages like Riby, dex and Daina, as well as the mentioning of 1 UTAU on Luka V4x's page. Really, I don't see why there is a problem redirecting links to UTAU.... They already do as I've noted.
Teto's page. Teto's page on the UTAU wiki mentions Miku; there is no page onthe UTAU wiki for Miku, it redirects here. In fact this is the normal for all the wikis except ours.
Fanloids, Bunai and I have had a huge disagreement... But the impact these characters had on Vocaloid was in the years 2007-2009 with all merchandise for their most famous ones Neru and Haku ending. There is the Fanloid wiki. Almost no reference is made to them on most other pages... I think at best its Miku and V2. Fanloids didn't have a great impact on the Vocaloid franchise and outside of CFM, who don't define the whole of Vocaloid, they haven't impacted the softtware. In V3, Yamaha even flat out stated they don't support derivatives and distance themselves from them an the Vocaloid software. If they are to stay... We need a more solid reason then. The best I can come up with is "Vocaloid song support", but if thats the case... Then we also open up the road for characters of all songs to be included... We sort of do that, so its fine. But I think they could go the Daughter of Evil series method and just be on the page "Derivatives" if thats the case. They have their own wiki going into details after all.
In Limbo :They need further discussing
The "in limbo" synth pages are Megpoid Talk, Gynoid and Una Talk. These will need sorting at a later date. (edit: I suspect Gynoid Talk will eventually need its own wiki, so that one will resolve itself with time).
Maidloid has no wiki and I've tried to say it... We're in the process of addressing the issue with mature rated songs... These girls are 18+ rating and not one is addressing them to. So the issue is these girls can't be on a wiki of their own because it will be shut down. This is the only page that a flat-out deletion would be the best option. Their not the slightest bit related to Vocaloid, being more closely related to UTAU since Acme Iku has a UTAU voicebank and just linger as a mature rating page at a time we're addressing the mature rating pages on the wiki. The new girl has basically 3 metal stripes stopping you seeing her nipples and genitals, so I'm dubious about the image. We get a lot of trolls or young teenagers in the comment section. (edit: also don't forget, their samples are sex sounds...)
So I hope this makes Bunai happy, I drew the line in the sand on the issue of "whats relevent".
I don't know if I missed anything...
Actually, I kind of disagree with flat out removing some things, as these synth wikis are fine on their own with the pages on this wiki. For example, I have access to Special:Analytics on Synth V wiki, so I'm able to check the site views for the past month.
On our wiki, the Synthesizer V article averaged about 311 views in the past week. (see https://vocaloid.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Insights/popularpages ) If we assume that's the average page views a week, that's about 1,244 page views a month. On Synth V wiki in the last month got over 6,700 VIEWS! So, these wikis are doing pretty alright, even with these extra pages, which are some concerns that you brought up. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/608022645140750339/619872545054785536/AhIQnBQGzQEAAAAASUVORK5CYII.png
I also think that Fanloids do have a big impact, as many people confuse them for Vocaloids. I think their precense on Vocaloid Wiki is beneficial as most people will read them and be able to know that they are not real.
As I have mentioned in the staff channel, Maidloid is okay because it doesn't link to any NSFW content or give any in detail sexual information. Wikis like the Huniepop wiki are able to get away with this stuff because it's not in detail. You can also see https://community.fandom.com/wiki/Fandom_Community_Guidelines#Don't%20post%20porn,%20shock%20images,%20or%20explicit%20descriptions%20of%20sex .
For text, content that just mentions characters have sex is likely to be OK. But content that describes exactly how they have sex, is not. Content that describes violent or non-consensual sex is expressly prohibited.
So yeah. In all honesty, I think that if some of this information weren't here, then no one would even bother to look at the wikis because they are just small links at the bottom of a main page. However, when you have short articles explaining the topic, it gives more insight on what topic you're looking for and THEN you can look for a wiki about it. That's what I did when I first joined this wiki and honestly, I'm sure most users have done the same, but I am not other users so I can not speak for them.
Fanloids have no impact on mondern Vocaloid at all, maybe less then we credit them for in the 2007-9 when they were a big deal. Things have moved on because more Vocaloids got released. This is the problem with Vocaloid in 2019 as oppose to 2009 when the fanloid craze was at its peak. The fanloids were made because there was about 3 characters (Miku and the Kagamines), later 5 when people realised Meiko and Kaito existed and it stopped by the end of 2009 pretty much after Ah Software joined in.If you look at the trends of fanloids, their almost all related to CFM, and almost all from that period. That is, the ones that should be even remotely taken seriously. And at best the two most popular ones Haku and Neru are memes, the other popular ones like larva Rin are also memes. I'm suggesting that maybe these deserve to go onto a list and be collapsed down to basics with links just to the fanloid wiki.
I still disagree, there isn't much reason for having Synth V other then I made it because it was tradition here. Other then a fact someone on the team was on the Vocaloid team there is no big deal.
Whle those stats are nice... They create more questionable problems.
If the wikis are doing alright even still without the pages here, that still brings to question, well, then why do we have a page here? We're not clearly giving the Synth V attention at all if its doing fine without us needing to prob it up. So, people are looking for these wikis, but... Maybe not here, because these pages haven't been too popular.
To me, Maidloids touchy because its samples are literal sex sounds, so you can't link to their songs... Which makes making a wiki for them limiting. ITs NSFW at all. So though there is no imagery, this is the problem with Maidloid. Not a single song can be said for Maidloid to be safe for work at all. Thats my issue with Maidloid. That,.,, And as I said, it has no relation to Vocaloid and is more closely tied to UTAU because someone converted the files to UTAU. So it has less reason to be here. But if they are able to be on a wiki, they should be on a wiki of their own. I don't know how to sort that as its complex for these two and I recently discovered the Vocalina wiki and its got just 3 articles... 2 on the 2 characters. And i think this is the problem here.
The main issue is we need a lot more reason for these article being here with entire wikis when their vague at best related to Vocaloid, other then the constant issue thats being brought up as a counter; "I think they should stay".... With the vague excuse for them basically being here like even you've given here. It amounts to "they should stay just because they should", we need more then we've got here. The issue results in a problem that doesn't settle with me, because it means we're attached to them even though their no relevant. One of the reasons I had to change UTAU to its current lay-out was its lack of links to Vocaloid directly, so I had to re-write the page as a comparison to have some more justification for being there, so I've known this for a long time that theres been a problem.
They almost got disappeared when I was bureaucrat, but as I said in the topic, someone would give a excuse to keep them or say "hang on I'm working on their related wiki" and each time things got delayed. After 3 delays and pressure from me to get it sorted, I never resolved the issue because as you know, the pressure of dealing with VO forums got to me. So these pages were meant to be redirected and gone from the wiki back when it was still V2 we were calling the main engine. The fact is, when I look at O Herman's excuses he tried to pull off on the Discord yesterday and look on the UTAU wiki and so not a page on Vocaloid despite how Vocaloid influenced UTAU, clearly, I see the same situation thats reflected here. Just as UTAU wiki can survive without havea page on Vocaloid, we too can survive without a page on UTAU. Like how Teto's page on the UTAU wiki redirects here, we can do the same in the about 3 instances that we have referred to Teto, ditching her page to send readers straight to her wiki page at UTAU. As I said, this is no problem, the other wikis do this already and it takes us out of the picture as acting like an unneeded middle man.
The problem is Yamaha never made any of these vocal synths, they don't support them, and aside from being a vocal synth, that their only relation in most cases.
I don't think it hurts to keep some pages if they aren't that relevant to the main topic
What do you think?