Hello! Maybe I don’t understand something, but does Vocaloid have any canonical characteristic since recently? It always seemed to me that the authors basically avoided this, but lately I began to meet a lot of people who tried to refer to various songs as the Word of God or even to argue that some information should be accepted as a canon. Usually in the form "the authors added this song to the official tracklists or performed at a concert, so this is the canon".
Miku's canon is; female, age 16, she has a weight and height. Plus a few other bits. And thats the base of any canon.
All other songs are not canon at all, Vocaloids are blank slates in which the user puts their own ideals onto. No matter what, no one should take songs seriously and even CFM themselves only count as what details I've given. And these days they've semi-abandoned even the biology they gave their characters, since their not always referenced.
Some Vocaloids such as VY1 have less canon, VY1's vocal is "female" and it's official name is "VY1". Thats it. The entire canon for VY1. I think outside of the Chinese Vocaloids, Iroha, Lapis and Merli are the only ones with extensive canon.
In terms of songs, their canon is only to themselves, for example the entire "of Evil" series is canon but only to itself. They just have no impact on the Vocaloid chracter at all. We don't even treat them as canon here for this reason. And if we did... Well... You get songs wherein a Vocaloid like Miku is an innocent virgin one song and a seducative whore in another. They are contrasting portrayals of the same character and both can't be official for obvious reasons.
Thank you for your reply! For many years I wasn't interested in vocaloids, so I was very surprised when went to YouTube, one guy began to prove to me that Miku x Luka was allegedly canon due to the fact that the authors added a couple of their duets to the official tracklists.
This is everything canon, we did have this on Answers wiki but Fandom has gotten rid of those wikis(people tended to ask questions of no value or ones they could look up in 5 seconds on google). But it sums up everything. If a guy on youtube is arguing on relationships, link them here and to that page.
It lists everything we could find that is confirmed.
One thing to note is CFM has all but abandoned every canon details about Miku and co they made for the CV series, they don't even really refer to them as that. CFM rarely brings up Miku's age even sometimes and have been working to making their vocals a lot more fluid then they used to be even in V2.
Thank you again for your reply! I always thought that the freedom of the canon is one of the best things in vocaloid, but for some reason many people think that their ships or reading of personality is more important than the opinions of others.
No one can bare to be wrong, its pride. But the average fan sees about 30-100 Vocaloid songs and thinks "I've seen them all", hence why the same 30 songs get referenced all the time like the Evil series, The World is mine, Magnet, etc. They see a small % of songs and go "right, so Len dies more then Rin, Miku and Luka are lesbians, etc". They lack the ability to not base ideas on what they've seen and presume because Vocaloid A and Vocaloid B sound great together they *must* be a item. In many cases, a producer had to work to make those two vocaloids work together.
And since most fans are teens, which tend to have a mixture of puberty, striving to find their place and identity, understand emotions, etc, tend to ship the most of any age group. And because of their lack of maturity they don't know better and yet because of their maturity over children, are more likely to be persistent that their right on the matter. Because their stick between both sides of the "don't know better" ladder left over from being a child to becoming an adults. They have the willingness to learn and the ability to learn fast and this is both good and bad as they tend to be open minded but quicker to accept what they see first hand.
We all go through this stage despite that more or less and it tend to die off as you enter your late teens and early adulthood, I noticed a big difference in both myself and the people I used to talk with within every community of teens I was in between the age of 16-24. It was quite a shift in both the people I got to know and myself.
Good analysis, I even remembered myself during a debate about the connection between Rin and Len. I knew very well that their interpretation as twins was popular and important, but not canonical, but I still continued to remind people of this, since it seemed to me that this reading of the characters was “become more serious” after that.
This situation reminds me of shiping in PriPri, whose stuff deny that they conceived characters as a couple, but don't want to give unambiguous answers, so that people can have the freedom to interpret their relationshop as they want. However, most fans, even knowing this, continue to spend time endlessly debating whether the heroines are lesbians or not. As a result, initially good idea "read it as you like," for some reason only motivates people to be more persistent in their disputes about a "only one true understanding".
The pair were going to be shipped as twins, and overseas CFM still do, but CFM also abandon them because producers tended to try and have their relationship open. Having a romantic relationship between two characters becomes awkward when their shipped as twins, as it implies incest. Nowadays, so long as it complies with TOU its not going to be shunned.
Okay so I admit, I had to look up that Pripri thing.
I've seen this with the MLP fandom as well, for example Scootaloo has a pair of "aunts" living together, however, this has been common for years in some countries that two sisters will live together. At the same time if two people are in a relationship, they are generally accepted as family, so "aunts" also can imply "one sibling and their partner" to a parent. Later on another relationship is revealed in the final episode that had two meres living togehter that displayed no relationship prior then rivalary. Obviously, I'm not going to spoil the ending of a series here. But it could also mean one of the two left home because their sibling got married and was starting a family as well.
A lot of companies don't mention relationships that are official be it straight, lesbian, etc because romance can get in the way of telling a story. A lot of writers are aware fans ship characters and will either keep things vague for the sake of fans or confirm/deny the relationship at all because of how popular it is. In my time in the fandom when I was younger if fans weren't shipping themselves with a character they shipped their two favourite characters the most, even if the two hated each other. The argument is "opposites attract", though in reality two people with little in common are in a doomed relationship. The other habbit of shipping is "OMG she/he looked at that character, I must SHIP THEM!!!!" which is annoying as hell. When you consider teens especially have no idea about what is involved in a relationship to work or how long term relationships begin, its cringe worthy. I've only seen more cringe worthy stuff from housewife romance, but thats written for stay at home housewives who can't get out to experience more then lives given them, and it plays on their feelings of wasted chances due to having a married life.
At the end of the day, when I reached about 21 I grew to hate shipping because it pretty much was taking up most of places like Fanfiction.net. I noted that no matter what the show was about, fan-fiction amounted to either a romance or some other half-baked idea, with many stories leaving me thinking "did we watch the same show". Ideas like Fallout Equesteria were rare and unheard of in some fandoms.
The biggest issue is that most of the time, fans sadly take a fraction of the source material and go with it, I can't remember which character it was but someone once pulled up that in season 1 of a show a character played and was bad at darts. The fans picked up on this 4 minute scene and wrote entire stories that mentioned that. A particular critic, I forget who as this is going back to about 2004 I believe (it might be movie bob), pointed out that this 4 minute scene was being used to define an entire character, but all other traits of that character were being ignored including what he is good at. Its as if the fans took 1 detail they grasped and ran with it and just ignored all the rest of the series on who he was.
So, when you have to talk about shipping, you have to also bare in mind... This rule applies to ships. It doesn't matter that Character A has family, career, a cat, etc, they are shipped with Character B whose family, career, dog, etc doesn't matter. Its all about the shipping of two characters and nothing about who those characters are.
Lets just say, I'm fully aware of how most ships go, I don't like the idea of gate keeping and I tend to only say things like this to prove a point, but when your on the net for pretty much 2 decades... You notice how things change but at the same time stay the same. I see the same level of treatment in modern fanfiction references as those in my first serious fandom Beyblade in 2001. When I first entered the internet, I did see a lot of fans debating on things like "who could beat Superman" (summed up answer; depends of which version of Superman is on the table and what version of the character your throwing at him can do). But generally, honry fans had their fair share of a lot of debates (though in comic fandoms, it was a lot more horniness at the time and a lot less shipping, unless its something like Batman/Superman and Wonder woman level of fan debate).
Also I want to apologise, my thoughts on shipping and experience is quite vast. Some people enjoy shipping but... In due respects, I find it annoying because for some fans, its all they want to talk about. We have this the worst when it comes to the Kagamines. After 12 years, people still want to talk about their relationship when there is so much else to talk about in Vocaloid. IT gets tiring and is part responsible for the Kagamine fandom having a bad reputation because they annoy all other Vocaloid fans.
For some reason, at one point, people simply decided that romance is the only important or desired form of relationship, so even if you intentionally refuse romance in your work, people will think that you simply leave the character’s relationship at the subtext level.
Everything is easier than you think, people just begin to interpret ANY interaction or motivation of the characters as romantic. For example, among fans of sports shows, reading emotional rivalry as sublimation of sexual desire and unconscious crush between characters is very popular. In this case, romance is often perceived not only as the most important form of relationship, but even the root cause of any relationship in general. For example, the fandom of each show with siblings as protagonists (Supernatural, The Blue Exorcist, The Wizard of Beverly Place, etc) will include people who sincerely think that the idealized family connection between the characters is incestuous.
The trouble is as well is we get a similar problem with Flower.
Flower has this thing wherein people struggle it seems to accept her canon "female" status. IT gets to the point it hurts Flower, as people want to constantly re-write her and it begins to make that person look like they can't accept a character as they are unless they rewrite it to their needs. I've seen so many arguments such as "its headcanon" as a defence, but thats weak because headcanon often replaces canon for that person.
Its similar because this is whats happening in a lot of romances, nothing else matters except what a person wants.
And this comic sums up reality for romances. There is more to the comic as there i the run-up to the last 3 pages missing, but its just pages of her fangirling over Vader. And the obsession is so great that it messes that Vader by the time he becomes Vader is a monster. He doesn't care. The only person he ever shows signs of emotion to is Luke his son, but thats him trying to corrupt his son to be more like him and in the end Lukegot Vader to show he is more like himself instead. And only Luke could have done that because Vader never let anyone get close enough to be in the picture except for the Emperor, as Vader was loyal to the Dark Side.
When headcanon gets to points this bad, nothing matters to the person, those who can't not see Miku x Luka are no better then those who can't see Flower as a female and all are unable to accept that canon is what it is.
But often more then nothing, there is a reason that character is who they are. Families who are close as you've example do so for protection, and because it holds the family together. A family that isn't close is doomed to split apart. An idealised family such as those you exampled is held together by a level of respect for each other and understanding, its different to romance, which is only going to happen between the parents, and the kids with outsiders.
Incest in itself is a taboo and shunned because in humans... Incest can create children... Who have SERIOUS health problems. You can look up the Colt family of Australia and read some of the defects that kids had and you can see why its shunned. This is why society focuses on pushing kids to have relationships outside of their close families (siblings, half-siblings, aunties, uncles, grandparents and up to 2nd cousins in some cultures, but not step or adoptive kids though since their family they often get included). If the DNA of two individuals is more then 45% the same as a human beings chosen mate upon conception, it comes with a high risk. And I hate to say it, but to normalise the threat it presents like fanfiction tries to do, makes people ignorant of this problem. It means kids get born with problems caused by their selfish parents, as anyone who purposes brings a kid into the world knowing this is being selfish in my opinion as they knew the risks but did it anyway and still did it. We should be no more normalising incest then we should be normalising child paedophilia in fiction.
Here it is not a matter of incest itself, but that people are so used to reading any relationship as romance, that even platonic family love is read by them as a romantic subtext. Not to mention the rivals, it’s enough to recall the "X-Men. First Class", where any discussion of the relationship between Eric and Charles will somehow be reduced to a homoerotic subtext between them. To such an extent that one of the commentators on the Shiping Wiki quite seriously claimed that their game of chess in the last film should be taken as confirmation of them as a canonical couple.
The funny thing is that some Vocaloid's producers are fully aware of this and even intentionally upload ambiguous "friendship song" with vocals of Miku and Luka to see how people will emotionally argue about whether the song is gay or not.
Anyway, I'm a 21st century guy, I have no problems with people who enjoy the slash shiping or the LGBQ community in general. But at the same time, I was just tired of feeling uncomfortable because of the obsessive people who require that every second work should be perceived as a gay love story only because they ship the main characters. This becomes such a big deal that many people even seriously seriously try to manipulate the LGBTQ community to blame in homophobia those who don't share their attitude. For example, when one of the ANN reviews avoid the popular interpretation of Liz and Blue Bird as a subtext lesbian love story, some people in the comments attacked the author, demanding that he start considered heroines as lesbians in recognition of the importance of LGBTQ rights.
Moreover, this is not limited to romance; recently, the requirement to consider any Japanese cross-dress character to be transsexual is also gaining popularity, even if the character himself does not hide his gender and never asks to see him a girl. Of course, all people who find this strange or even try to argue with this,pointing to the existence of Japanese phenomena like a otokonoko or Takarazuka, and that it aren't directly related to gender identity, will be immediately accused of transphobia.
It seems that people can no longer enjoy their subjective vision of content, therefore, they will start a conflict even because of the simple use of the word “friend” to the characters of their ship or the mention of other things that contradict their fanon.
" I've seen so many arguments such as "its headcanon" as a defence, but thats weak because headcanon often replaces canon for that person" - In anime fandom, this is often called "interpretation." Even if it’s obvious that a person is simply trying to rewrite the actual plot to fit his fetishes or POV in general, you should still respect this and take it as a serious option just because “people have the right to interpret”. Moreover, people themselves will never be friendly to any of your interpretations, even trying to organize bullying of you if shiping is a big deal in this situation.
I wrote a response but its not posting, I have an issue to be fixed.
Okay let me try this again.
I don't respect the rewrite, simply because after 11 years of the Kagamines... SERIOUSLY, there is more to write on them other then are they brother/sister, lovers, etc. I just don't care about the ship because that was great maybe in 2008-2010 but in 2019, especially when PS taking the Kagamines away from Vocaloid, its just boring. There is more to Vocaloid then whatever romance one likes.
I still blame it on the lack of a serialisation, always have done.
ANN doesn't mention romances unless it impacts a character or the plot. Otherwise they tend to leave it out. The article is on the series, not the unofficial romance. Therefore they don't need to mention it.
I like One Piece, but if I had to sum the entire series up... I'm not going to focus on Sanji + Puddings wedding that never took place or Shanks + Luffy beyond Shanks saving Luffy's life and therefore causing the entire plot to happen. There is just more then this and I like nerding out over every little detail. Its made worst by the mangaka Oda himself having this nasty happen of refering a detail he included 400 chapters ago. X'D
To the problem is the fans talk is shallow in Vocaloid, because I hate to say it, Vocaloid itself is a shallow franchise.
Unless your a techie nerd, you have nothing to discuss and most fans are anime nerds, not even music boffins mot of the time, so their not tech nerds at all.
I respect the person who finds something new to discuss that causes everyone to rethink things and how they look at everything. You rarely get this in the Vocaloid fandom, but in others... Well if I compare this to the "what if..." story of Fallot Equestria the story is much more indepth then anything Vocaloid fans produce.
Hi Angel. Just wanted to let you know that i am still preservering and learning with VOCALOID5 and have created my own virtual singers based on Chris and Amy. I did one song in Germany (Swiss-German actually) which came out well by using British style phonetics to reproduce the German words. My latest album which i just put up on Bandcamp has 10 songs with the VOCALOID5 singers and is dedicated to Blues and Boogie-Woogie and they sound quite reasonable - one can understand what they are saying and they have a "bluesy" touch to their voice. Check it out at: http://www.stevehaite.bandcamp.com/album/feeling-the-blues Cheers. Steve. PS I am not sure if by the standards of you experts this is good and progress or still very, very basic.